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How many of these are there?
I know of 3:
Dan Melchior/Spits
Manniquin Men/Jack Oblivian
Dirtbombs/Davila 666
Anyone know of an easy way to actually get these? As far as I can tell, you just have to walk into a record store when they put them out for free.
Also................TOYO TA IS PUTTING OUT SPLIT 45s.
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Mitch is correct.
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bad sports/cheap time
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i think theres a black lips/pierced arrows one comin out.
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i think theres a black lips/pierced arrows one comin out.
That one is out too already. They were handing em out at the Oblivs show to people on line.
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Also................TOYOTA IS PUTTING OUT SPLIT 45s.
S.T.A.R. Safety System comes standard.
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waiting for the recall
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Does anyone actually know the inside scoop as to why Scion and garage rock are now bedfellows? Or rather why a large car company is trying to appeal to a niche market in such a way as giving Greg Ashley a slew of fans and hats to pass out on tour, sponsoring / putting on festivals, and releasing free records?
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Seems so weird. I guess I'd take their car money.
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Really, that is the only money out there. Small bands and labels make very little if anything off record sales, diddly off downloads, and not much live.
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Got some sweet Scion socks, fuggit, seems like too niche a market to be effective, but they probably figure grass roots is lower than ever with da internetz and all.
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Toyota isn't trying to market Scions to fans of these bands as much as it is trying to rerebrand the Scion as a hip, young vehicle. In the early '00, Toyota was pretty successful marketing the Scion to under 30s, especially people from 16 - 25. A few years ago sales dropped and they rebranded it as a hip but adult car choice. That failed and now they are back to what worked before and rerebranding it as the young people's car. It is not the Black Lips fan that they are after, but the young goob who thinks Black Lips fans are cool.
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black lips fans are cool, right?
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I got the Spits split at one of their shows. Don't have any of the others.
Who's got scum stats on these? They have to more value than $100 CDRs for sale on message boards.
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Aaron: "Are you now considering a Scion as a future vehicle purchase?"
Fifty-plus show-goer: "I don't think so."
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Does anyone actually know the inside scoop as to why Scion and garage rock are now bedfellows? Or rather why a large car company is trying to appeal to a niche market in such a way as giving Greg Ashley a slew of fans and hats to pass out on tour, sponsoring / putting on festivals, and releasing free records?
It's a strange thing to see happening, that's for sure. It's not just "garage" that they are doing this with either. Scion/Vice have done big metal and hip hop events too.
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I can already hear Mitch's voice endorsing Scion on the radio.
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BUY THIS CAR!!!! I'M TOO FAT TO FIT IN IT!!!!
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Mitch, whose gonna drive you home?
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(http://www.phil-deriggi.com/images/trucker1.jpg)
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These are going for $100+ on ebay already, right?
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Does anyone actually know the inside scoop as to why Scion and garage rock are now bedfellows? Or rather why a large car company is trying to appeal to a niche market in such a way as giving Greg Ashley a slew of fans and hats to pass out on tour, sponsoring / putting on festivals, and releasing free records?
I was wondering that also. Same thing for pabst blue ribbon. I remember that beer was not big at all years ago. Now I see it everywhere. Saw them at a wutang show with free kegs.
I know that if you take a few pics of people at your shows wearing the free scion hats and key chains and shit...they give you money. You just gotta email the pics to them at the end of the night. They give you some set amount every show. Good for gas. Still not gonna make more people buy scions though.
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Toyota isn't trying to market Scions to fans of these bands as much as it is trying to rerebrand the Scion as a hip, young vehicle. In the early '00, Toyota was pretty successful marketing the Scion to under 30s, especially people from 16 - 25. A few years ago sales dropped and they rebranded it as a hip but adult car choice. That failed and now they are back to what worked before and rerebranding it as the young people's car. It is not the Black Lips fan that they are after, but the young goob who thinks Black Lips fans are cool.
Garage rock is a puppet government.
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Mitch, go to Amoeba Berkeley and hassle the counter folk.
We had some Jack O' & and some Spits splits in the promo bin for moons.
I think there are a couple left, at least.
I got the Davilla/Dirtbombs one handed to me a week or so ago, but haven't seen them in the stashbox as of yet.
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Aaron: "Are you now considering a Scion as a future vehicle purchase?"
Fifty-plus show-goer: "I don't think so."
If it will help me to maximize my carbon footprint then the answer is yes.
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anyone got doubles of the Scion tube socks they would be willing to sell or trade?
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Converse has been putting out 45s for a minute now.
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The worst thing about this is that it is clogging up the pressing plants.
The best thing is that it might lead to the revival of the cereal box record.
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Converge has 45s? Nice.
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Ok, folks let's start assigning bands to the cereals. First thing that came to mind as I sat at my kitchen table reading termbo was a Gun Outfit / Grape Nuts record. I've got work to do so I'll let the rest of you continue this noble cause.
And the best part of this Scion singles series is that the artwork on the three so far is by former Half Life lead singer (and Akron,OH cop) Jeff Lamm.
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I'll bite that hook.
Strange Boys/Cheerios
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Electric Bunnies / Trix. Duh.
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Magic Kids / Lucky Charms
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Converge has 45s? Nice.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Converge-Y2K-7inch.jpg)
Probably a 33, unfortunately.
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the whole Scion/garage thing has a Mother 13 vibe to it, but i would definitely support a cereal box record revival.
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Magic Kids / Lucky Charms
Magic Kids would be a strong contender for seriously making a case for this actually!! Pretty much a perfect band for a cereal box record.
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Wavves / Cookie Crisp
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waiting for the recall
Toyota's denying that their 45s lack locked grooves at the end, blaming it on bad truntable setup...
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Ok, folks let's start assigning bands to the cereals.
Oh good, Razorcake record reviews come to Termbo.
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Hunx/Bear Naked
(http://images.meredith.com/fitness/images/2008/04/ss_5BearNakedGranola.jpg)
I must admit that was really funny. Although slightly inappropriate to Hunx's body type. Maybe they could have a special edition to Trix called "Twinx" in his his honor?
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Jack Oblivian had the split with Mannequin Men on the merch table last night.
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And the best part of this Scion singles series is that the artwork on the three so far is by former Half Life lead singer (and Akron,OH cop) Jeff Lamm.
... with future Gearhead honcho Mike LaVella in Half Life, right? Turkey time!
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And the best part of this Scion singles series is that the artwork on the three so far is by former Half Life lead singer (and Akron,OH cop) Jeff Lamm.
Whoa. Yeah, I know who that guy is. He did the art? Crazings.
Walked up to the record guy @ Blivs show and he had just given out the last one. Feldman was cradling one, mumbling, "Ebay fodder." That guy - he ain't no Communist.
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all bands and fans should boycott this shit. hasn't punk taught you anything?
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all bands and fans should boycott this shit. hasn't punk taught you anything?
Kill a punk for rocknroll.
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And the best part of this Scion singles series is that the artwork on the three so far is by former Half Life lead singer (and Akron,OH cop) Jeff Lamm.
... with future Gearhead honcho Mike LaVella in Half Life, right? Turkey time!
Yep!!
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i played on one of thse and have never even seen a copy
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pick yr poison:
HALF LIFE that sounds like the FLAG
HALF LIFE that sounds like the EXPLOITED
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As of a few months ago Melchior was giving away his split for free with the purchase of anything.
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pick yr poison:
HALF LIFE that sounds like the FLAG
HALF LIFE that sounds like the EXPLOITED
Well I don't think they sound like the FLAG, but the 4 piece line up with Damon on Drums kills. Some of my favorite music ever.
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Oh yeah, Kid Congo / Hunx Scion shows in NYC and Austin announced today. Going after the gays now.
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When is Kid Congo playing NYC? I would go to that. Would love for it to be a day or two after the A Frames gig. Also, isn't there supposed to be another LP dropping on ITR? When when when?
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7/28 Knitting Factory
RSVP here
http://www.scion.com/garageshow/
When is Kid Congo playing NYC? I would go to that. Would love for it to be a day or two after the A Frames gig. Also, isn't there supposed to be another LP dropping on ITR? When when when?
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Wasn't the drummer from Don Cab in that band at one point as well, when he was like 17? Pittsburgh what!
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Wasn't the drummer from Don Cab in that band at one point as well, when he was like 17? Pittsburgh what!
Yes, that is the 4 piece line up I was speaking of.
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damon che is a trending topic on termbo lately
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Also, isn't there supposed to be another LP dropping on ITR? When when when?
The new Congo LP is out early next year.
This fall we are doing a subscription to buy five Congo 7"s, titled Five Greasy Pieces. They will be pressed in an edition of 200 and we'll be releasing one a month. A box will come with the 5th single to hold them.
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Also, isn't there supposed to be another LP dropping on ITR? When when when?
The new Congo LP is out early next year.
This fall we are doing a subscription to buy five Congo 7"s, titled Five Greasy Pieces. They will be pressed in an edition of 200 and we'll be releasing one a month. A box will come with the 5th single to hold them.
Ooh-wee!
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Hunx / Kid Congo is genius.
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Converge has 45s? Nice.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5b/Converge-Y2K-7inch.jpg)
Probably a 33, unfortunately.
First euro tour seven inch. Sold it ages ago, probably sould have sat on it a while longer...
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Hunx / Kid Congo is genius.
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/speaker68/KidCongo.jpg)
(http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af1/speaker68/Hunx.jpg)
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Hunx / Froot Loops would make another great cereal box pairing.
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7/28 Knitting Factory
RSVP here
http://www.scion.com/garageshow/
When is Kid Congo playing NYC? I would go to that. Would love for it to be a day or two after the A Frames gig. Also, isn't there supposed to be another LP dropping on ITR? When when when?
I already rsvped for this. but if some people wanted to tag along with me, they won't get turned away if the place isn't full, right? I've never been to one of these scion shows. nobody got turned away for the oblivians show right? this shouldn't be as packed.
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I already rsvped for this. but if some people wanted to tag along with me, they won't get turned away if the place isn't full, right? I've never been to one of these scion shows. nobody got turned away for the oblivians show right? this shouldn't be as packed.
Every one I've been to they've been picky about checking my name against the list. Just have your friends RSVP whether or not they are sure they will attend, or just RSVP for them (but be aware you're adding their email addresses to Scion's list).
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seriously? how many faggot points do you get for going to a Scion sponsored show at the Knitting Factory that you have to RSVP to and be all careful about "if yer on their list tee hee". Gimme 9,000 pink dick pins to put on my polka dot shirt STAT.
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what a load of bollocks.
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all bands and fans should boycott this shit. hasn't punk taught you anything?
well its not like scion is putting out any gism records so therefore I DONT CARE KEEP PRESSING CRAP
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Whatever. It's just a dumb car that none of us will buy anyway. They put on good shows for free, and pay the bands well. Ask Sarim. I was standing next to him when he got his cash for being Dan Melchior's drummer for a day. I think he said it was the most he'd ever been paid for something music-related. I say enjoy it while it lasts.
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dont see why it should bother anyone. get money (plus i like maybe one of these bands anyway)
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pffft. its just gay thats all. not my fault.
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all bands and fans should boycott this shit. hasn't punk taught you anything?
well its not like scion has put out any gism records YET so therefore I DONT CARE KEEP PRESSING CRAP
fixored because you just clued in their slaves interns about this HIP LO-FI GARAGE band from NIPPON!
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Not saying that I wouldn't take their money if they offered (because I almost certainly would), but I definitely understand why people take issue with it. It's not at all about trying to convince us to buy their cars, it's about using 'our culture' as a billboard.
That being said, their socks rule.
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true.
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That being said, their socks rule.
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Fuck the community, just gimme tha loot. How old are all of you? Sound like a bunch of 17 yr old punx with a worldview inspired solely by MRR and Profane Existence.
CASH IN, It doesn't matter anyway.
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wrong. for gods sakes. whenever yer "accidentally in line with THE "PUNX""....then someone cries MRR or 17 year old kid on ya. Come on man. The reason it's retarded is clear. there is a CAR company trying to use you, your music, and your taste....that you had to work for. and you are taking the $2.73 for that. But its not like I care that much anyway. i guess since all i ever see on here is usually people swaying with the breeze of this bullshit new wind marketing im just playing teeter-totter with it a bit. Money is awesome, but stupid shit is still stupid shit. i mean, is that a fair point? am i MRR punx HC fuckin fuck master now? Im just saying its dumb. Would I take their money? Yeah. But then I would play the show with a Scion sock on my chili pepper and talk shit on the company the entire time and call the crowd a bunch of faggots at a knitting factory vice scion show. for sure. what do these bands do besides bob their heads in front of the toyotathon? and that has nothing to do with MRR or immaturity. that has to do with me thinking its all just retarded is all that is. so yeah, PUNK IS HERE TO STAY. FUCKIN CARCORE
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Not saying that I wouldn't take their money if they offered (because I almost certainly would), but I definitely understand why people take issue with it. It's not at all about trying to convince us to buy their cars, it's about using 'our culture' as a billboard.
this post is sensible and not stupid. other termbo posters take note.
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Fuck the community, just gimme tha loot. How old are all of you? Sound like a bunch of 17 yr old punx with a worldview inspired solely by MRR and Profane Existence.
CASH IN, It doesn't matter anyway.
Real Talk.
Not saying that I wouldn't take their money if they offered (because I almost certainly would), but I definitely understand why people take issue with it. It's not at all about trying to convince us to buy their cars, it's about using 'our culture' as a billboard.
this post is sensible and not stupid. other termbo posters take note.
Not only are they using our culture as a billboard, but they might all be rich white males. Ah! The horror!
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I am curious to know what bands have actually said no to Scion stuff.
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I am curious to know what bands have actually said no to Scion stuff.
the punk ones.
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Not saying that I wouldn't take their money if they offered (because I almost certainly would), but I definitely understand why people take issue with it. It's not at all about trying to convince us to buy their cars, it's about using 'our culture' as a billboard.
this post is sensible and not stupid. other termbo posters take note.
Not only are they using our culture as a billboard, but they might all be rich white males. Ah! The horror!
you're a spoiled entitled baby who thinks that everything has to be the way you want it and when you get older and realize that the bubble you've built yourself into will get popped maybe you will have an inkling of a clue as to why you sound like such an asshole on here and everyone makes fun of you. but i guess i will wait for the inevitable 300 paragraph backlash that says:
"wahhhh".
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do you thing Ric Flair ever drove a faggot toyota?
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do you thing Ric Flair ever drove a faggot toyota?
I heard they offered him a buncha dough to stand in front of one and jiggle around and shit. He politely declined. Then smashed their heads into one, amorphous, fucked up head.
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Camel Cigarettes doing that Rolling Stones insert name-checking Home Blitz, etc? Lame. If the US Army was sponsoring shows for recruitment efforts? Lame. Some dumb car company wasting their money on throwing free shows and putting out singles? Fine by me.
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You all are way too old to still be thinking about the scene or a genre of music is a real community. If Rich decided to let McDonald's put ads up on this board, I wouldn't be mad at him. Who cares? I honestly don't get the big deal, this world runs on $ and commodities. If some company wants to pay John Dwyer some decent scratch to pass out Scion shirts, what is the big deal? He's still playing the music the way he wants to. It's not like Scion is asking bad to water it down.
Grow up.
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Camel Cigarettes doing that Rolling Stones insert name-checking Home Blitz, etc? Lame. If the US Army was sponsoring shows for recruitment efforts? Lame.
the marines (the fucking MARINES) have a recruiting booth at warped tour EVERY YEAR. i don't know where we went wrong but it had to have been before 1995.
You all are way too old to still be thinking about the scene or a genre of music is a real community. If Rich decided to let McDonald's put ads up on this board, I wouldn't be mad at him. Who cares? I honestly don't get the big deal, this world runs on $ and commodities. If some company wants to pay John Dwyer some decent scratch to pass out Scion shirts, what is the big deal? He's still playing the music the way he wants to. It's not like Scion is asking bad to water it down.
Grow up.
who are you telling to grow up? while this topic isn't at the top of the laundry list of important things people should actively protest and fight against in the world it's still dumb and counter-productive. i would take free money myself from lots of sources but i would definitely think about and consider where they come from. but the distinction here is that there is no one saying "where does it end". the same people who whine about hipsters infiltrating their gigs and ruining their good time are accepting the money that bankroll those idiots' path to the club and leave them standing around not caring about the bands in the first place. i am not knocking anyone who is going out there and getting scion money (well actually i am gently ribbing them) but i don't know what the view looks like with your head in the sand.
as for there not being a "community"... think about that next time you need someone to put you up or you make friends at a gig or talk on message board just like we're doing now. you and i have never met but we definitely know a lot about each other from this here idiot box and ummm... well.... MUSIC.
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Grow up.
that ain't very punk.
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You all are way too old to still be thinking about the scene or a genre of music is a real community. If Rich decided to let McDonald's put ads up on this board, I wouldn't be mad at him. Who cares? I honestly don't get the big deal, this world runs on $ and commodities. If some company wants to pay John Dwyer some decent scratch to pass out Scion shirts, what is the big deal? He's still playing the music the way he wants to. It's not like Scion is asking bad to water it down.
Grow up.
this is the lamest shit ive ever read on here and i made it through the 6 page reverb on vocals thread.
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not to mention (and not to beat on a dead horse) but if there's no community does that mean if someone walked up to you and said "fuck you n*gger" would you hope that everyone at the gig was behind you in telling that person to clam up and get the fuck out? the same goes for women, gay folks, people who are disadvantaged, handicapped, etc. i know no one wants to hear any of this stuff over here but you may as well ban me because it deserves to be said.
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Payton G got it right. It's the same as that Boredoms / Black Dice bullshit drum circle being sponsored by Nike, same as Sonic Youth doing a compilation for Starbucks. What they're selling to these corporations isn't their music, it's the very culture in which they built their reputations, the very culture that nurtured them and anointed them as "cool."
And it does matter -- it reaffirms the notion that culture can be bought and sold, that artists will do whatever is asked of them if the price is right. If that's how you feel about your art, go right ahead and do it, and fuck you. I don't listen to Black Lips or Dirtbombs or any of these shitty bands anyway, and shit like this reminds me why. They're no different from the cynical, big-name music-based, youth-oriented products that we routinely, deservedly shit on -- except the value that they bring to corporate America is that they are considered authentic and credible by people like... well, not me, but maybe you.
The problem is professionalism, in the sense of "being in a band as a profession," making a career out of being in a popular band. Not the same as being an itinerant musician who gets paid to play, but rather, producing culture as a commercial enterprise, producing culture in the name of commercial / corporate interests. The notion of making a living from making records and playing in a band is looney to me. At least if I wanna make the records I wanna make.
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Payton G got it right. It's the same as that Boredoms / Black Dice bullshit drum circle being sponsored by Nike, same as Sonic Youth doing a compilation for Starbucks. What they're selling to these corporations isn't their music, it's the very culture in which they built their reputations, the very culture that nurtured them and anointed them as "cool."
And it does matter -- it reaffirms the notion that culture can be bought and sold, that artists will do whatever is asked of them if the price is right. If that's how you feel about your art, go right ahead and do it, and fuck you. I don't listen to Black Lips or Dirtbombs or any of these shitty bands anyway, and shit like this reminds me why. They're no different from the cynical, big-name music-based, youth-oriented products that we routinely, deservedly shit on -- except the value that they bring to corporate America is that they are considered authentic and credible by people like... well, not me, but maybe you.
The problem is professionalism, in the sense of "being in a band as a profession," making a career out of being in a popular band. Not the same as being an itinerant musician who gets paid to play, but rather, producing culture as a commercial enterprise, producing culture in the name of commercial / corporate interests. The notion of making a living from making records and playing in a band is looney to me. At least if I wanna make the records I wanna make.
BRO.
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You all are way too old to still be thinking about the scene or a genre of music is a real community. If Rich decided to let McDonald's put ads up on this board, I wouldn't be mad at him. Who cares? I honestly don't get the big deal, this world runs on $ and commodities. If some company wants to pay John Dwyer some decent scratch to pass out Scion shirts, what is the big deal? He's still playing the music the way he wants to. It's not like Scion is asking bad to water it down.
Grow up.
Fuck you too. Good luck selling Mickey to whatever bullshit enterprise throws some money your way. They don't have to ask them to water it down, because it already is watered down music, that appeals to indiscriminate, uncommitted "listeners" who purchase music as a commodity. These musics are already a commodity, the question is, to whom does it belong?
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this is the lamest shit ive ever read on here and i made it through the 6 page reverb on vocals thread.
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Termbo has a strict "no advertising" policy, just for the record. But I would let McDonald's get in here if they paid me with a lifetime supply of Filet-o-Fish sandwiches.
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at least SOMEONE has principles around here
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All kidding aside, I've been contacted by outside "interests" looking to get some adspace here, and I've respectfully declined every time. Not that I'm concerend with selling out, but it just wouldn't be appropriate. It would definitely queer the whole thing we have going here, which is a "community" whether anyone wants to admit it or not. I don't think these bands getting paid by Vice is that bad (but I do agree with Whet Bull's argument) but it definitely is a step in the wrong direction in the big picture. We've seen Vice ruin the Black Lips and KK/BBQ already, even if it was partly their own faults. But then again, where did they have left to go anyway? I'm sure Melchior or The Spits have no delusions of making it big on the backs of this little promotion, good for them for getting paid, bad for us that most of the pople who get these records are dickwipes who could care less anyway. I'm no champion for the "scene" or whatever, but I definitely want to keep it monitored enough so I still want to be a part of it.
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good look barrels. quality post.
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If a band has reached a level that a company like Toyota actually knows what they are doing, I would think that their bullshit detectors are in working order, having had PLENTY of time to hone their reactions to shadey senarios playing bars across the US and Europe. I haven't talked to any band that said they were screwed over by this Vice/Scion thing...in fact, it's been 100% the opposite.
I guess it's a big surprise to folks like us that this level is actually the one that we tend to think is so special or close to our own tastes.
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my bullshit detector is fucking completely broken...I have no idea what anything is anymore
duhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrr rrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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The point isn't that the bands are being screwed over. I'm sure they're getting paid whatever they were promised.
Honestly, this isn't terribly surprising. Garage rock has always been staunchly apolitical, and in recent years the pendulum has swung far, far away from the nineties aesthetic of ultra-crude, monophonic, trash-can recordings, so it was only a matter of time before bands like the Dirtbombs or King Khan or the Black Lips accrued enough cultural capital that major interests like Toyota would take notice. The Spits... well, they seem like the kinda dudes for whom it's a non-issue one way or another. Where do you go from here, then? It makes perfect sense. But it's still lame. I think the shock that some people have experienced at this comes from having been there at the beginning, and seeing a once-tiny, communal, esoteric pocket of the music scene grow into a relatively big commodity. And by relatively big I mean a few million dollars shy of the Lemonheads ca. '91, or something like that.
For all intents and purposes, these are indie-rock bands. And the big joke about indie-rock is that it always implied that it was somehow more grassroots, more critical, more earnestly artistic than Big Rock 'N' Roll. Sugar Ray, American Idol, and Chickenfoot are over there; over here is where we "serious" people make rock & roll -- we're not playing to the masses, we're not out to make a buck, we're not entertainers. And the thing is, the indie-rock industry is structured EXACTLY THE SAME as Big Rock 'N' Roll, only it's smaller, less lucrative, less effectual.
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no shit. "indie rock" doesnt mean a thing
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It means "The Black Keys rule."
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worrd dawg
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(http://www.2dayblog.com/images/scion_dj_5-axis-04.jpg)
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Are all bands not on a major label "indie rock"? I hate that term. I never thought of the Gun Club or the Birthday Party as indie rock bands. I wouldn't call Drunkdriver an indie rock band. Is "underground" a legitimate alternate term to that?
I'm not really horribly bothered by this sort of thing, but it does seem to take a bit of the "sheen" off of these artists in some weird, intangible way. Sort of like when you really crush on a person, but then something about them changes ever so slightly. You still think they are "attractive", but your heart no longer, ever so imperceptibly, skips a beat when you see them.
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I don't think of Drunkdriver or the Gun Club or Birthday Party as indie-rock bands. I don't think of Rip-Off records stuff as indie rock either. It's a nebulous term but what I mean by it here is commercial rock 'n' roll marketed to (and consumed by) tiny, self-consciously "hip" niche communities as part of a lifestyle package.
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the honorable thing to do would be to elect the wood brothers president and let THE SPITS take over the country
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I don't think of Drunkdriver or the Gun Club or Birthday Party as indie-rock bands. I don't think of Rip-Off records stuff as indie rock either. It's a nebulous term but what I mean by it here is commercial rock 'n' roll marketed to (and consumed by) tiny, self-consciously "hip" niche communities as part of a lifestyle package.
Thank you. Good definition.
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duhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Not saying that I wouldn't take their money if they offered (because I almost certainly would), but I definitely understand why people take issue with it. It's not at all about trying to convince us to buy their cars, it's about using 'our culture' as a billboard.
this post is sensible and not stupid. other termbo posters take note.
Not only are they using our culture as a billboard, but they might all be rich white males. Ah! The horror!
you're a spoiled entitled baby who thinks that everything has to be the way you want it and when you get older and realize that the bubble you've built yourself into will get popped maybe you will have an inkling of a clue as to why you sound like such an asshole on here and everyone makes fun of you. but i guess i will wait for the inevitable 300 paragraph backlash that says:
"wahhhh".
Man, you're really sensitive. Read what I wrote initially. Then read your response. Now see who sounds like a crying baby.
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you mean your glib shitty little reference to what i had to say in the mel gibson thread where you discounted everything i had to say because you didn't agree with the view that i posed? yeah, i read it.
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For all intents and purposes, these are indie-rock bands. And the big joke about indie-rock is that it always implied that it was somehow more grassroots, more critical, more earnestly artistic than Big Rock 'N' Roll. Sugar Ray, American Idol, and Chickenfoot are over there; over here is where we "serious" people make rock & roll -- we're not playing to the masses, we're not out to make a buck, we're not entertainers. And the thing is, the indie-rock industry is structured EXACTLY THE SAME as Big Rock 'N' Roll, only it's smaller, less lucrative, less effectual.
I have to take some issue with this. I've heard that whole schtick for years now that "indie rock" (the broad short-hand, not Modest Mouse) and "mainstream corporate rock" are the same thing, just that indie rock is done on a smaller scale. While I think this is true to some degree, and certainly to the extent that both are capitalist entrepreneurial endeavors based on basic market economics, I think there are important differences.
"Major labels" are concerned entirely with a making a profit. They don't care at all what they're selling as long as it sells. Music is pure product. Many "indie labels," in fact most (I would argue), are not releasing music exclusively to turn a profit. That's not to say they're all idealistic labor's of love, but they're not all purely market driven. Do you honestly think, say, Matador (certainly one of the biggest and most successful "indie labels"), puts out all their records with a cynical eye to profit? How the hell do you explain Kustomized then? (No dis on Mr. Prescott, by the way). The difference might be minimal, but it's there.
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(http://stores.homestead.com/unitedindependentmedia/catalog/Garden-State-DVD.jpg)
INDIE ROCK
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I don't think of Drunkdriver or the Gun Club or Birthday Party as indie-rock bands. I don't think of Rip-Off records stuff as indie rock either. It's a nebulous term but what I mean by it here is commercial rock 'n' roll marketed to (and consumed by) tiny, self-consciously "hip" niche communities as part of a lifestyle package.
Actually, the above vastly alters the entire point of my recent post. Point taken.
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few things and then ill shut the fuck up and not take any more time. i gotta read MRR back issues anyways. FUCKIN PUNX.
#1) yall be baggin on Troy WAY too hard. i mean, sayin something about it is one thing, but yall done brought tons of hate into it. PEACE PUNX / SMASH RACISM! (haha!)
#2) When I saw this my reaction was "whoa! fuckin awesome fucked up retard car!" and then 20 seconds later I was like "oh shit, thats a Scion, thats why he posted this". hmmm. I dont know what that says, but im sure one of the sociologists on here can figure it out for me.
(http://www.2dayblog.com/images/scion_dj_5-axis-04.jpg)
#3) Right when i was about to shit on you for bringing all yer "quality post, i approve" gayness on here....you go ahead and say something that would truly bring world-awesomness. keep on congratulating yourself sir. you deserve this one.
the honorable thing to do would be to elect the wood brothers president and let THE SPITS take over the country
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Also................TOYO TA IS PUTTING OUT SPLIT 45s.
I heard that Chrysler is putting out the next Personal & the Pizzas 45....Comes with a Hemi
Also........Yamaha makes mortorcylcles and amplifiers. Pretty tight
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the honorable thing to do would be to elect the wood brothers president and let THE SPITS take over the country
THIS
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Toyota Records: They start at 45....but suddenly accelerate to 78. They interviewed a dude on the news.
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GET READY FOR WAR!
SMASH SCIONISM
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I'm just disappointed that everyone sold their souls over such a gay car.
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you mean your glib shitty little reference to what i had to say in the mel gibson thread where you discounted everything i had to say because you didn't agree with the view that i posed? yeah, i read it.
Read this last sentence again as well. I discounted what you had to say because I didn't agree with it? In other words I disagreed with what you said and gave my reasons why. You sure get pissy whenever anyone fails to stroke your "STEVE #1" ego. I'm not the one going "waaaaaah!!!!" here.
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Crazy, I was just walking through the Mission and saw this weird rounded-edge-squaremobile car that had the Personal & the Pizzas album cover completely wallpapered all over it.
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you mean your glib shitty little reference to what i had to say in the mel gibson thread where you discounted everything i had to say because you didn't agree with the view that i posed? yeah, i read it.
Read this last sentence again as well. I discounted what you had to say because I didn't agree with it? In other words I disagreed with what you said and gave my reasons why. You sure get pissy whenever anyone fails to stroke your "STEVE #1" ego. I'm not the one going "waaaaaah!!!!" here.
yes and your reasoning in said thread before soriano deleted it was quite sound and implied that i was crazy for thinking that white male privilege was an actual concept that exists in our world and also for thinking that the government and media have a bias against women due to this control and privilege. oh yeah, and that women in the US have it a whole lot better than women in japan because sexism is SO MUCH WORSE over there despite the fact that you have no frame of reference and are in fact a dickheaded wannabe bro who does not understand anything because despite you writing circles around here till your fingers bleed trying to prove your point somehow attempting to shame me into submission despite the fact that i went to college too and know how to read people still think you're a weenie (someone said this today actually) and a baby.
you sounded great. it showed you have a real knack for being a moron and a complete lack of self-awareness. but then actual women showed up in your thread and called youa bonehead and said you were wrong and you completely ignored their posts and then made fun of me (ha!) saying you had so much more talent. it takes a lot of talent to... ummm... get a TB column?
i'm quite sure people are chomping at the bit to read your latest insights posted from the depths of firestarter's assholes.
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Payton G got it right. It's the same as that Boredoms / Black Dice bullshit drum circle being sponsored by Nike, same as Sonic Youth doing a compilation for Starbucks. What they're selling to these corporations isn't their music, it's the very culture in which they built their reputations, the very culture that nurtured them and anointed them as "cool."
And it does matter -- it reaffirms the notion that culture can be bought and sold, that artists will do whatever is asked of them if the price is right. If that's how you feel about your art, go right ahead and do it, and fuck you. I don't listen to Black Lips or Dirtbombs or any of these shitty bands anyway, and shit like this reminds me why. They're no different from the cynical, big-name music-based, youth-oriented products that we routinely, deservedly shit on -- except the value that they bring to corporate America is that they are considered authentic and credible by people like... well, not me, but maybe you.
The problem is professionalism, in the sense of "being in a band as a profession," making a career out of being in a popular band. Not the same as being an itinerant musician who gets paid to play, but rather, producing culture as a commercial enterprise, producing culture in the name of commercial / corporate interests. The notion of making a living from making records and playing in a band is looney to me. At least if I wanna make the records I wanna make.
Why does a band/musician have to consider their music a serious cultural artifact in order for their art to be valid? Does every band have the responsibility of acting as representatives of some amorphous "community?" If we're going to throw everyone under the umbrella of participants in an underground community then it would hep to know what the common thread binding them together is. I fail to see what binds together bands on labels like Burger with a bands like Drunkdriver or Clockcleaner. I know a lot of people in bands that have records discussed/sold on Termbo that have no clue what most of the bands on here sound like and no inclination of checking them out. Are they all part of the same community just because they happen to share some fans? Is Terminal Boredom the uniting thread? Don't make me laugh. You and STEVE are both right in saying that Termbo is a community, but that's because the participants in this community all interact and share something in common: Termbo itself.
The main issue here though isn't whether or not bands are creating music as a commodity. Once you start making records and putting them out for sale you're by definition offering a commodity for public consumption. There have been lots of great songs written over the years with no intent rather than to make a bunch of money attached to them. That's not the case with any of the bands being discussed here though, except for maybe the Black Lips. The real issue here is about ownership. Bands can do whatever the fuck they want without feeling beholden to something as nebulous as "the scene." If Scion pays a band who is obviously not making a lot of money off of record sales - because nobody is - then who are any of us to judge? If this really upsets you so bad then don't buy their records or see them live. Justin Collecterscum made a great point when he mentioned that Camel is a disgusting company and it makes sense to get upset about them using bands' names without permission in order to help market a deadly product. Scion is selling cars though. Morally speaking there's a world of difference here.
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you mean your glib shitty little reference to what i had to say in the mel gibson thread where you discounted everything i had to say because you didn't agree with the view that i posed? yeah, i read it.
Read this last sentence again as well. I discounted what you had to say because I didn't agree with it? In other words I disagreed with what you said and gave my reasons why. You sure get pissy whenever anyone fails to stroke your "STEVE #1" ego. I'm not the one going "waaaaaah!!!!" here.
yes and your reasoning in said thread before soriano deleted it was quite sound and implied that i was crazy for thinking that white male privilege was an actual concept that exists in our world and also for thinking that the government and media have a bias against women due to this control and privilege. oh yeah, and that women in the US have it a whole lot better than women in japan because sexism is SO MUCH WORSE over there despite the fact that you have no frame of reference and are in fact a dickheaded wannabe bro who does not understand anything because despite you writing circles around here till your fingers bleed trying to prove your point somehow attempting to shame me into submission despite the fact that i went to college too and know how to read people still think you're a weenie (someone said this today actually) and a baby.
you sounded great. it showed you have a real knack for being a moron and a complete lack of self-awareness. but then actual women showed up in your thread and called youa bonehead and said you were wrong and you completely ignored their posts and then made fun of me (ha!) saying you had so much more talent. it takes a lot of talent to... ummm... get a TB column?
i'm quite sure people are chomping at the bit to read your latest insights posted from the depths of firestarter's assholes.
WHAAAAA!!!!!
I'm smiling over here buddy.
Learn to construct a coherent sentence and then we'll talk.
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you don't even deserve capitalization or commas
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How many threads must die for you two to be happy? there was almost an actual conversation going in this one about commercializing "indie rock" and i was finding some of it a bit interesting until you two got started again. could you guys at least be funny!
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Calm down dudes, hit a nug.
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you don't even deserve capitalization or commas
I'm sure the effort required to think about capitalization and punctuation is really exhausting for your tightly wound 'lil brain.
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(http://www.2dayblog.com/images/scion_dj_5-axis-04.jpg)
Pretty sure I saw a car show on TV (guilty pleasure of mine) where they spent an hour on the building of this show car.
For the Gibson Bros weekend in Ohio my rental car was a Nissan Cube, which looks just like this. I felt silly driving it. I think as soon as the Cleveland Budget Rental office saw I was going to be returning my car to Columbus, they seized on the opportunity to get this piece of crap out of their garage.
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MICKEY will sell out this precious community in one fucking second. I WILL REVEAL ALL FOR THE RIGHT PRICE. MY MUSIC WILL SOON BE YOUR INTERNATIONAL REPRESENTATION VIA JIMMY JOHNS AND CHIPOTLE. DEAL.
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Payton G got it right. It's the same as that Boredoms / Black Dice bullshit drum circle being sponsored by Nike, same as Sonic Youth doing a compilation for Starbucks. What they're selling to these corporations isn't their music, it's the very culture in which they built their reputations, the very culture that nurtured them and anointed them as "cool."
And it does matter -- it reaffirms the notion that culture can be bought and sold, that artists will do whatever is asked of them if the price is right. If that's how you feel about your art, go right ahead and do it, and fuck you. I don't listen to Black Lips or Dirtbombs or any of these shitty bands anyway, and shit like this reminds me why. They're no different from the cynical, big-name music-based, youth-oriented products that we routinely, deservedly shit on -- except the value that they bring to corporate America is that they are considered authentic and credible by people like... well, not me, but maybe you.
The problem is professionalism, in the sense of "being in a band as a profession," making a career out of being in a popular band. Not the same as being an itinerant musician who gets paid to play, but rather, producing culture as a commercial enterprise, producing culture in the name of commercial / corporate interests. The notion of making a living from making records and playing in a band is looney to me. At least if I wanna make the records I wanna make.
Why does a band/musician have to consider their music a serious cultural artifact in order for their art to be valid? Does every band have the responsibility of acting as representatives of some amorphous "community?" If we're going to throw everyone under the umbrella of participants in an underground community then it would hep to know what the common thread binding them together is. I fail to see what binds together bands on labels like Burger with a bands like Drunkdriver or Clockcleaner. I know a lot of people in bands that have records discussed/sold on Termbo that have no clue what most of the bands on here sound like and no inclination of checking them out. Are they all part of the same community just because they happen to share some fans? Is Terminal Boredom the uniting thread? Don't make me laugh. You and STEVE are both right in saying that Termbo is a community, but that's because the participants in this community all interact and share something in common: Termbo itself.
The main issue here though isn't whether or not bands are creating music as a commodity. Once you start making records and putting them out for sale you're by definition offering a commodity for public consumption. There have been lots of great songs written over the years with no intent rather than to make a bunch of money attached to them. That's not the case with any of the bands being discussed here though, except for maybe the Black Lips. The real issue here is about ownership. Bands can do whatever the fuck they want without feeling beholden to something as nebulous as "the scene." If Scion pays a band who is obviously not making a lot of money off of record sales - because nobody is - then who are any of us to judge? If this really upsets you so bad then don't buy their records or see them live. Justin Collecterscum made a great point when he mentioned that Camel is a disgusting company and it makes sense to get upset about them using bands' names without permission in order to help market a deadly product. Scion is selling cars though. Morally speaking there's a world of difference here.
I don't know if I agree with the "commodity" argument. Commodity implies a fungible good to me (eg, Natural gas, pork bellies, etc). I don't think that releasing a record or other piece of art into the public necessarily means that you've unleashed a commodity into the world. You have released a product for consumption for sure, but what's the intent? There's a whole continuum of possible intent from hopefully eating into the cost of making another record to becoming filthy rich. And yes, both good and bad records happen, in the ears of the beholder, no matter what the intent.
Also, if you're in a band, the whole deal is that people will judge you. In every way imaginable. So I say let the people judge; if you're in it for the right reasons you shouldn't let other people's judgments change what you want to do.
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The other day I rented a SCION and drove with Vinnie and Bomba to TARGET to buy a WIDE SCREEN TV. Afterwards we ate at IN'N'OUT and listened to NEIL YOUNG. I guess I'm a corporate punk at heart.
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Everyone named Steve shut the fuck up. I'm trying to figure out whether to buy the one that looks like a matchbox car you get in a kid's meal at Hardees or the hatchback with a cancerous growth.
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huge LOL at these bands selling out 2 the crappiest/gayest car company on earth.
AND FOR WHAT???
BAND COPIES???
i thought the whole idea of selling out was to MAKE THAT MONEY
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Payton G got it right. It's the same as that Boredoms / Black Dice bullshit drum circle being sponsored by Nike, same as Sonic Youth doing a compilation for Starbucks. What they're selling to these corporations isn't their music, it's the very culture in which they built their reputations, the very culture that nurtured them and anointed them as "cool."
And it does matter -- it reaffirms the notion that culture can be bought and sold, that artists will do whatever is asked of them if the price is right. If that's how you feel about your art, go right ahead and do it, and fuck you. I don't listen to Black Lips or Dirtbombs or any of these shitty bands anyway, and shit like this reminds me why. They're no different from the cynical, big-name music-based, youth-oriented products that we routinely, deservedly shit on -- except the value that they bring to corporate America is that they are considered authentic and credible by people like... well, not me, but maybe you.
The problem is professionalism, in the sense of "being in a band as a profession," making a career out of being in a popular band. Not the same as being an itinerant musician who gets paid to play, but rather, producing culture as a commercial enterprise, producing culture in the name of commercial / corporate interests. The notion of making a living from making records and playing in a band is looney to me. At least if I wanna make the records I wanna make.
Why does a band/musician have to consider their music a serious cultural artifact in order for their art to be valid? Does every band have the responsibility of acting as representatives of some amorphous "community?" If we're going to throw everyone under the umbrella of participants in an underground community then it would hep to know what the common thread binding them together is. I fail to see what binds together bands on labels like Burger with a bands like Drunkdriver or Clockcleaner. I know a lot of people in bands that have records discussed/sold on Termbo that have no clue what most of the bands on here sound like and no inclination of checking them out. Are they all part of the same community just because they happen to share some fans? Is Terminal Boredom the uniting thread? Don't make me laugh. You and STEVE are both right in saying that Termbo is a community, but that's because the participants in this community all interact and share something in common: Termbo itself.
The main issue here though isn't whether or not bands are creating music as a commodity. Once you start making records and putting them out for sale you're by definition offering a commodity for public consumption. There have been lots of great songs written over the years with no intent rather than to make a bunch of money attached to them. That's not the case with any of the bands being discussed here though, except for maybe the Black Lips. The real issue here is about ownership. Bands can do whatever the fuck they want without feeling beholden to something as nebulous as "the scene." If Scion pays a band who is obviously not making a lot of money off of record sales - because nobody is - then who are any of us to judge? If this really upsets you so bad then don't buy their records or see them live. Justin Collecterscum made a great point when he mentioned that Camel is a disgusting company and it makes sense to get upset about them using bands' names without permission in order to help market a deadly product. Scion is selling cars though. Morally speaking there's a world of difference here.
I don't know if I agree with the "commodity" argument. Commodity implies a fungible good to me (eg, Natural gas, pork bellies, etc). I don't think that releasing a record or other piece of art into the public necessarily means that you've unleashed a commodity into the world. You have released a proct for consumption for sure, but what's the intent? There's a whole continuum of possible intent from hopefully eating into the cost of making another record to becoming filthy rich. And yes, both good and bad records happen, in the ears of the beholder, no matter what the intent.
Also, if you're in a band, the whole deal is that people will judge you. In every way imaginable. So I say let the people judge; if you're in it for the right reasons you shouldn't let other people's judgments change what you want to do.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think most bands or labels on here harbor any illusions they're going to do more than break even. My point was that when records are released for mass consumption that you're by definition trying to sell your "art" to the public. There's nothing wrong with that.
I also agree that people are going to judge bands no matter what. That's also fine. However, getting all upset about a band using a company like Scion for financial backing and the band using them to promote their brand is silly. Posts like Loy's and Steve's imply a sense of ownership over bands' decisions.
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Calm down dudes, hit a nug.
totally hit one.........
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I can see some of your points about all this. Is corporate sponsorship kinda slimy? Yeah, it kinda is. Does it take some of the art out of the music? Perhaps. That being said, I don't see how it's that harmful. If Ford gave Home Blitz a whole wad of skrillz to pass out stickers at their set with no strings attached to artistic control, I wouldn't blame Daniel and company for doing so. Would it be kinda corny for them to do it? Sure...but in the end, it's not like some evil empire ruining our music scene/community/whatever.
Everything, no matter how "underground" or "independent" has somebody's money behind it. Whether it's a bedroom label doing that pre-order bullshit to get money to do a record or just you borrowing money from a friend or family member to press a record to the Matador/Sub Pops of the world.
Money makes the world go round and fuck, why not get some too as long as you don't have to be a total whore, puppet or clown in the process. I used to think more about ideals and ethics but I'm 28 now and got bills to pay.
Also don't play the race card, Steve...that is bullshit.
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I've been guilted/walked freely into too many "fundraising half-assed musician needs chemo but is an artist and has no insurance shows" to not have a clear opinion on this. I'll cop out and say "that's life in America" and if you disagree...well, I can't wait to see your homemade jeans at the next pot-luck.
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1. I don't think Scion or Vice "ruined" any bands. That's a bit ridiculous.
2. A lot of these posts read as cynically as an issue of Vice, actually.
3. I don't see the evil in playing one of these shows or releasing something on Vice Records. I do, however, think both of those pursuits are entirely uncool.
4. That said, I'd have little problem playing a Vice-sponsored show, so long as the other bands on the bill were good and the venue wasn't a headache. The label would have to pay me a lot of money to release my shit.
5. I think there's a very big difference between bands who are willing pursue an incidental surge of attention to its logical end and bands who are comprised of crass, obnoxious entrepreneurs. Not every Vice-affiliated band is the latter. Hell, most of them probably aren't.
6. It's easy to say etc. when you've never been asked to etc. -- either by dint of playing wholly uncommercial music, or by dint of playing in a crummy band that has no fans. That's why some of these posts reek of blind MRR-brand proselytizing.
7. Y'KNOW?
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"You're just jealous!"
I don't see any "evil" in any of the stuff you describe. I don't have any stake in the garage scene and it makes no difference to me personally if it gets co-opted many times over. It's incoherent to even discuss King Khan or the Black Lips "selling out" because those guys don't stand for anything anyway. But the point remains that by lending Toyota or Vice their cred or cultural capital or whatever you wanna call it, they're selling something that others helped them build. The commodity being traded is not the music itself, or the records -- it's the culture that gave birth to them, built them up and then sustained them, the aura of cool that they developed thanks in part to the people who listen to them, who released their early records, who booked their early gigs, who blabbed about 'em to friends and on the internet. Clearly many of those people are fine with this. As someone with no stake in it whatsoever, I'm just saying, this is what it means, and I'm glad not to be a part of it. If, say, Billy Bao, or Talibam!, or Mike Rep or The Dead C accepted corporate sponsorship on this level, I'd feel betrayed, but the likelihood of that happening is nil, and that's how I like it. I also dig a lot of really vulgar, openly commercial bands (mostly from other eras, I admit, which is different), but in those cases there's no pretense of underground cool or of grassroots beginnings, no confrontational stance, no attempt to subvert anything. I wasn't implying that the Black Lips or Davila 666 set out to make money or anything of the sort, but these are bands that play inherently commercial music designed for niche audiences. There's no premeditation or cynical calculation required for them to blow up or sell out -- it's built into what they do. So, yeah, no surprises. It's happened many times over an it always looks exactly the same.
Basically, I think rock 'n' roll shouldn't be a job and you shouldn't expect to make a living from it unless you're some kind of technician -- a session dude, a recordist, guitar tech... more or less a faceless hired hand, as opposed to a personality, a celeb, whatever. Feel free to disagree, of course.
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I think I'm the only one qualified to comment on this post...
You see, last year, during the "cash-for-clunkers" thinger, the wife and I traded in my unsafe-at-any-speed, smells-like-gasoline, clunky-ass-brakes, wiggles-around-once-you-hit-50-mph, rusted-out, bought for $500 1995 Dodge Caravan deathmobile for a fucking Scion XD. That's the hatchback. It doesn't look like a box. It's got a lots of room for a little car, a kick-ass stereo, good acceleration, goes nice around corners, instantly cool air-conditioner, etc... It's a good car. We got it before we knew of their co-opting of the "garage-rock" scene. It was the best thing out there out of a buncha cars we tried, so that's what we got. Seriously.
Of course I'd rather be driving some 60's American muscle-car (perhaps with some tattoos) or maybe a Hurse, but this little rice-burner gets the job done. Sorry if the money we spent on this car went to pressing up 7-inchers by bands I couldn't give a fuck about... My bad!
It was really fucking nice to have a brand new car, even though the wife already put a few dents in it.
So, fuck ya'll, we like our Scion Garage Rock Corporate Sell-Out Car.
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At one point I would be in with Loy. Now, I am conflicted. I have no problem with someone living off their music or someone like a label living off of putting people's music out. As long as people are honest with each other, great. But digital tech has made it difficult if not impossible for many people to make money playing music. And I am not talking about big money. I am talking a couple thousand a month. Too many people refuse to pay for music. They complain if bands try to compensate by charging more to play live. Musicians are expected to work for free. This culture Loy writes about is not one that seems to be reciprocal. In the past the creators were compensated by the users ie the fans. But only a small minority of the users want to pay for what they use. That is the greater culture. It is that same culture that wants good roads and wars against Arabs and unemployment checks and oil rigs regulated but doesn't want to be taxed to pay for it. We want something for nothing. So it leaves those wanting to play music for a living in a pretty fucked up position. Rather than exchange their work for money, they exchange their work for patronage. Hundreds of years ago the patrons were the Church and the Rich. Now the patrons are Corporations and decreasingly the State. A label person I know and respect, who treats his bands well and puts out good records, told me that the only money out there is licensing money. He has popular bands but struggles to sell 1000 - 2000 of a release today, where five years ago he could easily sell 5 - 10000. People download the albums for free instead of buying them. So you get ripped off by your fans and so you turn to corporations for support and your so-called fans call you a sell out. You think this sucks? Well, look in the fucking mirror.
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Ha ha. Yeah, I really don't care either.
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Steve, didn't Rot Shit play a festival last summer with some corporate sponsorship?
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all bands and fans should boycott this shit. hasn't punk taught you anything?
well its not like scion has put out any gism records YET so therefore I DONT CARE KEEP PRESSING CRAP
fixored because you just clued in their slaves interns about this HIP LO-FI GARAGE band from NIPPON!
haha shit. that be great too. either saveki would get PAID, or set more dudes on the subway on fire. who knowss?!!!!
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Ha ha. Yeah, I really don't care either.
^This was in response to Swampy's post, not SSR's.
Scotch, I know what you're saying. It's complicated, and of course it's harder than ever to stay afloat doing music in any capacity.
I don't mean to imply that musicians shouldn't be paid for what they do. Nothing wrong with receiving just compensation for your work. If you make an honest product and lots of people want it, that's great. But I sense that many "independent" musicians, of every stripe, labor under the notion that they should be able to make a living doing what they do, and that it's somehow unfair if they don't. Tell that to Mike Rep, Bruce Russell, Alan Bishop, Sightings, et fuckin' al, etc.
Ever since I got involved in music about 17 or 18 years ago, I've seen countless examples in my midst of artists making great music while holding down regular jobs. Their art never suffered for lack of patronage or record sales. If anything, it thrived on it. And living-wage success did nothing for their art as far as I can tell. If anything, it seems to steer artists into a state of complacency and/or financially motivated calculation. This isn't true for all kinds of music, but I think it's definitely true of punk and any music that thrives on antagonism, any artist who self-identifies as as "loser" or an outsider.
Then there's the idea of "taking it to the next level," reaching a wider audience, playing the big festivals, whatever it is. To what end? I guess it gets boring playing to the same 100 people year after year. Tell that to Cheater Slicks! Obviously your art develops along with your audience -- the audience serves as a mirror for your work, a sounding board, an interlocutor, and the bigger the audience, etc. I get it. But really, having a bigger audience means that most of your audience is gonna be a bunch of stupid assholes, so what does that mean for your work? Unless you strive to confound, antagonize and alienate that audience, it only means that your art will suffer. And if you antagonize that audience, it will probably abandon you as quickly as it embraced you. So... if playing in the Dirtbombs or the Black Lips has ceased to be interesting or stimulating on its own and the only way to grow is to cater to an audience of people with whom you can never really expect to connect, people who will never get you, then maybe it's time to hang it up.
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Steve, didn't Rot Shit play a festival last summer with some corporate sponsorship?
ummm, no?
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also i quoted payton originally and said i am not above taking free money but you should think about and consider where that money comes from and ultimately what you are supporting. if GTs Synergy Kombucha Co. wanted to sponsor me on a world tour i'd go in a second but if Halliburton was chomping at the bit to finance a Rot Shit 7" i'd tell them to get fucked.
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Halliburton would be much funnier.
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"You're just jealous!"
Not what I implied. It's just easy for people to cast aspersions when they've never been in the position of accepting or rejecting corporate sponsorship on this level.
I don't see any "evil" in any of the stuff you describe. I don't have any stake in the garage scene and it makes no difference to me personally if it gets co-opted many times over. It's incoherent to even discuss King Khan or the Black Lips "selling out" because those guys don't stand for anything anyway. But the point remains that by lending Toyota or Vice their cred or cultural capital or whatever you wanna call it, they're selling something that others helped them build. The commodity being traded is not the music itself, or the records -- it's the culture that gave birth to them, built them up and then sustained them, the aura of cool that they developed thanks in part to the people who listen to them, who released their early records, who booked their early gigs, who blabbed about 'em to friends and on the internet. Clearly many of those people are fine with this. As someone with no stake in it whatsoever, I'm just saying, this is what it means, and I'm glad not to be a part of it. If, say, Billy Bao, or Talibam!, or Mike Rep or The Dead C accepted corporate sponsorship on this level, I'd feel betrayed, but the likelihood of that happening is nil, and that's how I like it. I also dig a lot of really vulgar, openly commercial bands (mostly from other eras, I admit, which is different), but in those cases there's no pretense of underground cool or of grassroots beginnings, no confrontational stance, no attempt to subvert anything. I wasn't implying that the Black Lips or Davila 666 set out to make money or anything of the sort, but these are bands that play inherently commercial music designed for niche audiences. There's no premeditation or cynical calculation required for them to blow up or sell out -- it's built into what they do. So, yeah, no surprises. It's happened many times over an it always looks exactly the same.
From your perspective, they're selling "something that others helped them build." Sure, but what about the people actually creating the music? It's theirs; they can do whatever they want with it. Audiences can accept or reject the decision and move on.
Basically, I think rock 'n' roll shouldn't be a job and you shouldn't expect to make a living from it unless you're some kind of technician -- a session dude, a recordist, guitar tech... more or less a faceless hired hand, as opposed to a personality, a celeb, whatever. Feel free to disagree, of course.
I actually agree with this. But I don't fault someone else for paying the bills with it.
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Besides, fuck the audience.
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Besides, fuck the audience.
I'm with you, man.
No, I mean, that jealousy comment was kind of glib. I know that's not what you meant. It's hard to resist the temptation, I'm sure. It's best to not put oneself in that position in the first place. One makes enough compromises from day to day just to get by; it's nice to think that art is a space where one needn't compromise. Why would you have it otherwise, y'know?
As for the music belonging to the artist: sure, I'll follow you there. But would you agree with me that there's a difference between licensing one of your songs for use in a commercial, and performing under a gigantic Heineken banner, or issuing a record with the Toyota logo on it? I should think so.
But I would also ask you to entertain the notion that a band's music is NOT entirely theirs once it enters the public arena. Publishing something makes it public (duh), and its significance or meaning is also shaped by the culture at large, by the audience. The audience doesn't get equal credit, of course; but by making his work public the artist enters into a contract with the audience in which the audience is not entirely without a voice or a role in how the work is treated. Legally? No, but certainly ethically. And of course, the audience's prerogative is, as you said, to accept the artist's decisions or to reject them and move on, which is all we're talking about here anyway. Boycott 'em, ignore 'em, heckle 'em -- your call.
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I think Whet has made a lot of great points. But I'd go further.
It'd be one thing if music was actually made by poor people. Instead so much is simply made by dickwads who can afford to take that long vacation from earning a living and revel in that such that if any corporate interest dangles out some change they are more than willing to bend over so they can get some more years out of pretending they transcend everyday life because they are Artists.
It's total bullshit. Philosophy has caught up with music. You aren't outside everyday reality. Music is a hobby. It is not a living. No one deserves to spend years coming up with something that can be edited nicely over an NBA montage. You deserve to suffer, nothing more.
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I think anyone who has read the last five or so pages of this thread has suffered enough.
Munch, that may be your opinion, but here is mine: FUCK YOU.
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Hey, if there's a bad sports split coming up, I'm buying it!
It's ultimately a pretty hilarious concept that couldn't possibly help the company. The only people who benefit from this are the hoarders who get these records for free and sell them on eBay.
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if GTs Synergy Kombucha Co. wanted to sponsor me on a world tour i'd go in a second
But then if the alcohol content of your tour got too high it would be recalled.
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This may be the first time I've ever completely agreed with Soriano.
The people who steal your music are the same who turn around and call you sell outs. None of the Dirtbombs are making a living at the band, so we take whatever we can get.
Dirtbombs got paid $5000 to play a show and record one song for Scion. They also paid for flights and individual hotel rooms for each member AND per diems that totaled $100 per person.
Mick wrote the song in the studio, might as well been a throw-away. I played a stupid drum part on the fade-out that sounds like shit. In terms of the song itself, I think we nailed it on the second take and my entire time spent in the studio couldn't have been more than 3 hours (would've been much shorter had Mick actually written a song beforehand). I spent the rest of my time hoofing it around Manhattan, going to record stores and enjoying the mini vacation.
I don't remember the specifics of the contract, but the vinyl is a one-time only pressing of 1000 copies. Maybe they have the rights to use it for a commercial or whatever but we've actually already had songs licensed before...to Wal-Mart even, so that doesn't really concern me in the least.
On top of that, my fiance owns a Scion and I've spent many hours driving it. The XD is a solid car and I recommend it highly.
In short, it's become more and more difficult for bands to survive on record sales and touring alone. If the "fans" aren't ample enough to support an act, there's nothing wrong with accepting money from a corporation to make the rent. Don't criticize a band until you've been put in their situation.
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Hey, Cass. Respectfully: I understand having to pay the rent as much as anyone. Do you depend on The Dirtbombs to pay the rent? Is it fun to be in your band? Does it actually cost you anything to be in a band? I'm not judging you, I'm just saying: most people have to work at jobs they hate just to pay the rent. Are you saying that being in a band isn't profitable enough, or that without corporate sponsorship you couldn't possibly continue to make music? If you have no personal qualms about doing this, that's up to you entirely and it's not my place to judge. But these are honest questions. Care to answer them?
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Hey Loy when are the Chinese Restaurants putting out a record with Ebullition?
Also, boycott any band that ever makes any amount of money ever and tarnishes their authentic indie credibility.
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I saw you up there and was waiting for you to chime in!
I don't care about credibility or authenticity. I like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I like making money too. It just irks me when people talk about making music as though it were some kinda noble struggle. There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
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And playing in a garage band just doesn't require the kind of dedication that it takes to be, say, Ligeti, or Coltrane. It means practicing maybe two or three nights a week with your bros, touring once in a while, and a whole lotta drinking.
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So are rock bands supposed to commit themselves entirely to a certain audience, then? How is that any less of a compromise than working with a corporate sponsor? It's r'n'r, not populism. People can do whatever the fuck they want.
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I saw you up there and was waiting for you to chime in!
I don't care about credibility or authenticity. I like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I like making money too. It just irks me when people talk about making music as though it were some kinda noble struggle. There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
I don't get the noble struggle part. Where did that come from in relation to this? And who are you to say and why would you care what any of the dirtbombs does for a career? There are a ton of career choices that I would consider bad, ignoble ideas. Some days it is even my career choice that falls into those categories, but beyond me and my family it isn't really anyone else's business.
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Seems like a wealth of "fascinating" and "relevant" cultural "commentary" was being unloaded while I spent 8 hours puking up blood yesterday. There ain't no Termbo in the hospital. Carry on, brave comrades...
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This is America baby. Money fuckin talks.
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And bullshit walks.
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There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
i dont know. i think that hanging out, smoking weed, drinking beer, then playing some sophomoric garage jams with your bros, to a couple hundred people who like your music, sounds like a lot better and more "noble" life path than, say, being a corporate attorney or working at best buy or some shit.
this may not be totally analagous, but what about being an actor/actress? many folks in this field have some pretty high-minded, artistic ambitions, and almost universally have to work a day job to support it, but sometimes it's not a bad decision to go work a season at some corporate-sponsored shakespeare fest to earn a few months' rent money as well.
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"Hey Monsoon, U think if the 15 members of Divala 666 all scraped their pesos together they could even buy a Yugo?"
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2050/2195799444_c0ed34f6ef.jpg?v=0)
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There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
i dont know. i think that hanging out, smoking weed, drinking beer, then playing some sophomoric garage jams with your bros, to a couple hundred people who like your music, sounds like a lot better and more "noble" life path than, say, being a corporate attorney or working at best buy or some shit.
for real
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Hey, Cass. Respectfully: I understand having to pay the rent as much as anyone. Do you depend on The Dirtbombs to pay the rent? Is it fun to be in your band? Does it actually cost you anything to be in a band? I'm not judging you, I'm just saying: most people have to work at jobs they hate just to pay the rent. Are you saying that being in a band isn't profitable enough, or that without corporate sponsorship you couldn't possibly continue to make music? If you have no personal qualms about doing this, that's up to you entirely and it's not my place to judge. But these are honest questions. Care to answer them?
I do not depend on the Dirtbombs to pay my rent. No one in the band does. But it is certainly far more lucrative than any day job that any of us are working. That one Scion show with the 'bombs was the equivalent of what most of us make in two weeks. Nice work if you can get it.
Most of the time it is fun being in a band. There are some costs involved with being in the band (we're spread across three different cities now, just getting everyone in the same town is cost prohibitive) but it's not terrible.
I'm not saying the band isn't profitable enough OR that we couldn't do it without corporate sponsorships. We would always love to make more money with the band, but there's so many mitigating factors to that (ie, how much you can tour on a single record). At the same time, we did the band way before there was any corporate sponsorship of any of these bands and we'll be doing it long after they've moved on to the next passing fad. Their sponsorship merely makes things more feasible...whether it be touring, recording or just living.
Also, let it be told that our pay from Scion is FAR from our standard rate. They are clearly overpaying, even when you figure in the show and the 7" together they're really taking care of bands. If they're paying us a premium, for something we'd usually be doing for a fraction of the cost and in turn not charging fans for the 7" or to see the live show, it really is a win/win situation.
We will never make a living off of this music, the Dirtbombs do not have widespread appeal. But I know that every member of the band would quit their job in a second if we could live off it.
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I don't care about credibility or authenticity. I like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I like making money too. It just irks me when people talk about making music as though it were some kinda noble struggle. There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
And playing in a garage band just doesn't require the kind of dedication that it takes to be, say, Gyorgi Ligeti, or John Coltrane. It means practicing maybe two or three nights a week with your bros, touring once in a while, and a whole lotta drinking.
I don't know if I've ever heard a garage band describe making music as a "noble struggle" before. I might be wrong though. One thing I'm fairly certain of though is that the bands now taking part in this Scion marketing campaign didn't start with the intent of making a living off their bands. However, like you say most people have to work a job they hate in order to make a living. I remember watching a Black Lips interview on the NPR website a few years back where they were interviewed about their then growing success and one of them said, "I don't wanna make no sandwiches for no yuppies no more." It's one thing to give up a secure middle class existence in order to devote yourself to trying to make a living off your music instead, but who can blame someone for giving up a life of poorly paying service industry jobs if they can make equal or better money off their band? More power to 'em I say. Even if the band turns into just another job I'm sure it's more fulfilling than working at Subway.
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This is America baby. Money fuckin talks.
Spoken like a true Vice apologist! Love ya, Gozac. I know where you stand on this stuff; I disagree. No biggie.
Erick, sorry you're not feeling well, dude!
Cass, thanks for your candor. You obviously didn't have to answer any of those questions from some randome dude on a message board, and it's cool that you did.
Dave, I don't know Cass or any of the Dirtbombs personally and I'm not judging them as people. This is a discussion about how music and business intersect, about what it means to be a professional musician, and about the ethics of corporate sponsorship. This singles series is a convenient example but you can replace it with any other you like. I think I've been pretty clear about my position: I don't have a great deal of respect for the notion of being a professional musician, at least not in this climate, not in the environment that you and I both inhabit. (I also don't have much respect for actors.) It's both delusional and kind of undignified, to do this dog and pony show for chump change, to hope that you can someday pay the rent with your Bowery Ballroom receipts. Playing rock 'n' roll is fun, or at least it should be. Playing rock 'n' roll for a living, in this climate, in this day and age, strikes me as utterly joyless and it means making all sorts of compromises. So when somebody says about a band, "Good for them, they're finally making money doing what they're doing," I kinda just have to shrug. I don't care if people are able to pay the rent making art. In a society like ours, it generally means you're doing something wrong, frankly. In the case of the bands in question here, I'm sure many of these folks are lovely people -- Cass seems like a very nice chap, and so does Mick -- but they're either making tepid, commercial music, or selling the edges in their music as a form of commodified rebellion, as Thomas Frank put it way back when.
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Also, nothing against the r'n'r lifestyle at all! Some of my best friends live it every day. I enjoy it when I can. Just don't call it "work."
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Yeah well in this day and age it is pretty much impossible to make any music or any music or type of art without someone having an angle on how to make a buck off of it or leverage someone else's art for their gain. How many Museums are not hooked up to some corporate sponsorship? How many bands of both yesteryear and today have business mangers and staffs of folks working their records to film and t.v. for licensing. I don't really separate bands that way in my mind. If I like them, I like them, but it seems that your giving old bands a pass and holding today's bands to some higher standard. Why? What has changed?
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The culture has changed, and the way that it's packaged and marketed has changed. I'm sure if I had grown up in the sixties I would have loathed the way rock 'n' roll operated then, and especially in the next decade, but listening to a mid-seventies Stones album, or a Mercury hard rock / psych release TODAY is kind of a politically neutral (or at least ambiguous) activity -- it doesn't really have much of an impact on the culture that we live and breathe every day. That stuff is a part of history and we can take from it what wewant. Whereas with contemporary music we're making choices about how we interact with the people making the music, and with their product, and in turn, with how the culture treats us as musicians, as listeners, as people.
It's also different from how things were in the eighties, when people like Ian MacKaye and the Touch and Go crew and Greg Ginn were able to create an entire infrastructure from scratch, all the while taking an adversarial stance vis a vis "corporate rock." A better example for us now might be the amateurist approach of the UK DIY bands -- and this, in fact, is the approach taken by most current bands that I admire.
Point is, it's defeatist to say that it's impossible to make music independently of the culture industry and of corporate patronage; and it seems complacent to say, well, the struggle to be independent from business is a thing of the past, now that indie labels can do what the majors could ten years ago.
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The culture has changed, and the way that it's packaged and marketed has changed. I'm sure if I had grown up in the sixties I would have loathed the way rock 'n' roll operated then, and especially in the next decade, but listening to a mid-seventies Stones album, or a Mercury hard rock / psych release TODAY is kind of a politically neutral (or at least ambiguous) activity -- it doesn't really have much of an impact on the culture that we live and breathe every day. That stuff is a part of history and we can take from it what wewant. Whereas with contemporary music we're making choices about how we interact with the people making the music, and with their product, and in turn, with how the culture treats us as musicians, as listeners, as people.
It's also different from how things were in the eighties, when people like Ian MacKaye and the Touch and Go crew and Greg Ginn were able to create an entire infrastructure from scratch, all the while taking an adversarial stance vis a vis "corporate rock." A better example for us now might be the amateurist approach of the UK DIY bands -- and this, in fact, is the approach taken by most current bands that I admire.
Point is, it's defeatist to say that it's impossible to make music independently of the culture industry and of corporate patronage; and it seems complacent to say, well, the struggle from independence is a thing of the past, now that indie labels can do what the majors could ten years ago.
I didn't say that it wasn't possible to make music outside of all of this, what I am saying is that is pretty low on my list of what informs my opinions of bands.
I kind of get where you are coming from with your Dischord, SST and Touch & Go analogies but two out of three of those ended up pretty different than how they started. It is entirely possible for someone to take that template or the UK DIY template and create something unique and new or start from scratch and create something outside of all of this that hasn't previously existed. I look forward to that. But my point is that I personally don't have a problem with this and I am always kind of amazed when people do. How is this different than Bobby Fuller re-writing his songs for a shoe store? I am a Bobby Fuller fan. I am a Dirtbombs fan. To me it is all music I like.
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I saw you up there and was waiting for you to chime in!
I don't care about credibility or authenticity. I like Frankie Goes to Hollywood. I like making money too. It just irks me when people talk about making music as though it were some kinda noble struggle. There's nothing wrong if you happen to make a buck from it, but playing marginal music in the hopes of paying the rent is a procedural error. I mean, it's stupid. A career in music in general is just a bad, ignoble idea.
I don't recall anyone saying they were going thru any sort of noble struggle. The main argument was certain people feeling it was a sell-out move for bands to take corporate money, that is betrayal to their "audience". Obviously if you want to make bank, being in some band is not a wise way to go about it. That being said, it would help if certain people would stop being so goddamn pedantic and self-reverential.
However, I do agree it is lame when you know there are bands that form simply to get write-ups in the right blogs/press and angle from day one for a corporate payday without much thought of actually making good music. That aspect of all this is pathetic. But for bands that luck into getting some $$$ along the way, seems fine and dandy to me
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This is America baby. Money fuckin talks.
Spoken like a true Vice apologist! Love ya, Gozac. I know where you stand on this stuff; I disagree. No biggie.
I am certainly grateful for the support that organization has given bands I have played in over the years and the opportunity to contribute to the magazine and website (FINGERS CROSSED GOT A REALLY BIG INTERVIEW IN THE WORKS; MORE DETAILS TBA) I don't see how I am apologizing for anything or anyone here...shit man, bands I like playin free shows and making a few bucks off of it...I got no problem with that. We all know playing music pretty much a money losing venture from the start...
No one ever called bullshit on the Ramones for whoring themselves out to Steel Reserve. In fact those jingles are actually a high water mark of the latter years.
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I was just singing the Ramones Steel Reserve commercial to Dave Unlikely the other night. True classics.
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"Gimme Gimme Gimme my Steel Reserve" is better than most of the post-Pleasant Dreams output anyway. They also hit all the bases with the fast 1234 numbers and the slower, more melodic sing-song jams.
High gravity lager, son.
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No one ever called bullshit on the Ramones for whoring themselves out to Steel Reserve. In fact those jingles are actually a high water mark of the latter years.
i love you vince, but are you comparing yourself, or anyone here to the ramones? theirs was a unique struggle on many levels and i know i don't have to go any further.
not being a dick, just being drunk and not particularly thinking about anything i say, as usual.
come see me and christine in williamsburg on aug. 13 at the wang dang doodle and please gimme the usual lefkove weird talk. i love it.
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The answers your all your questions is YES.
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RAD!!!
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It's r'n'r, not populism.
Here fucking here! People forget that rock & roll is first and foremost POP MUSIC. yeah yeah there is a folk tradition in rock, non commercial rock & roll, underground rock & roll, etc. but rock & roll is also show biz. And yes some people take one path or the other, but many straddle both and often the lines are blurred by real life. Fucking absurd to play the purist card, to say that no one should make a living playing music or strive to make a living playing music. Fuck that. Law is a passion of some people, a pure and noble pursuit: should all lawyers practice law for free. or do we break it down between indie lawyers and corporate lawyers and the indie lawyers pass the hat on the court house steps. Oh but I studied long and hard to be a lawyer so it is different. fuck that. people put up with a lot of shit doing bands. so you dont go to school to be in a band unless you are some stupid fuck who pays GTI to teach you how to be in a band and then you never get a band because the only people you will be in bands with are DTI and BTI grads all of whom are assholes like you. so yeah no school unless you count the school of hard knocks. yeah that's right the school of fucking life. the one that teaches you how to deal with junkie drummers and egomaniac guitarists and greedy club owners and rip off labels. this bullshit that to stay true and pure and full of grace you need to work some shitty job on the side is fucking bullshit. if you can make money playing music and that means taking money from toyota, great go for it. there are far greater evils in the world, like pushing paper 24-7 for a global insurance firm or working for a PR company who shills for BP or being a staffer of the Dem or Republican party. Why should artist or musicians or writers fucking struggle? Does it aid their art? No. Does it make them pure? No. Does it make them noble? No. And if they accept the life of struggle they are fucking saps. Artists and musicians and writers should be ruling the fucking world, not lawyers and accountants and businessmen. Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
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...and monty buckles.
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It's r'n'r, not populism.
Here fucking here! People forget that rock & roll is first and foremost POP MUSIC. yeah yeah there is a folk tradition in rock, non commercial rock & roll, underground rock & roll, etc. but rock & roll is also show biz. And yes some people take one path or the other, but many straddle both and often the lines are blurred by real life. Fucking absurd to play the purist card, to say that no one should make a living playing music or strive to make a living
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It's r'n'r, not populism.
Here fucking here! People forget that rock & roll is first and foremost POP MUSIC. yeah yeah there is a folk tradition in rock, non commercial rock & roll, underground rock & roll, etc. but rock & roll is also show biz. And yes some people take one path or the other, but many straddle both and often the lines are blurred by real life. Fucking absurd to play the purist card, to say that no one should make a living playing music or strive to make a living
are you talking about "our bands" as rock'n'roll bands or punk bands? you know the difference, right?
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Throughout all of this discussion, I find it interesting that I totally have two faces on this issue.
1. as a musician, I would totally do things to get more exposure and a bit of a better pay off, as long as they didn't totally make me queasy, go against my ethics / morals or force some sort of external influence on my music.
2. as a music fan, I have to admit that the top 1% of the things I love do have their "purism" intact. It's not that this sort of thing makes me dislike a band, it's just, as I said before, a bit of the sheen gets removed. It's my problem, not the bands' problem and I know I don't own them or their music.
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It's my problem, not the bands' problem and I know I don't own them or their music.
thats an interesting factor that probably gets lost on most people trying to side with one side or another. the whole thing about how even if you dont care.....somehow it just becomes like that one thing...like that one bad record....or terrible terrible song.....or like that new singer or something....its just the thing you want to ignore. and that alone causes a strange subconscious commotion in yer head. i feel ya.
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I'd rather listen to Cher than Crass (or the Black Lips). If it's entertainment you're after, you might as well give your hard-earned cash to a serious, professional entertainer who's gonna go out there and really deliver, knock 'em dead every single time, who treats her audience with respect and affection, who dazzles you with her skill and bravura and impeccable timing. Or maybe what you want is Don Rickles. That dude really honed his unique craft and is, by all accounts, a class act. The Frogs are almost as funny as Don Rickles, but not quite, and they goof off too much and break strings and shit. Then again, a ticket to Don's show, or Cher's, costs anywhere from $50 to $100. That's showbiz. So maybe The Black Lips are the poor man's Cher. The Dirtbombs are a rock 'n' roll show for those of us too cheap to spring for Chickenfoot at Madison Square. And Mickey is an off-brand Poison for retards and crackheads. This is rock 'n' roll? Fo' reals?
If you pay $10 to see Pissed Jeans at some piece of shit illegal venue in Brooklyn, are you paying for the "danger" (read: near certainty) of one of the band members projectile vomiting across the stage?
LOLz at the notion of "playing the purist card" (is that even a card?). Fleetwood Mac is much better than The Ex. That Feist iPod song is better than Mickey. Some of the best songs ever were written for commercials. "Do the Ostrich" is better than The Blue Mask. I don't have to be grateful to Vice for anything, and I'm glad that I'll never owe them anything. I'm not making any rules, this is just my opinion. It's how I sees the world. Or it's a position I've chosen to take and argue to its logical end -- who cares? what's the difference? -- for the hell of it, or because it's personally important to me who pays The Dirtbombs' rent, or because it pains me to see the integrity of a boozy nth-generation retro chic scene tarnished by the unalloyed greed of its brightest stars.
I'd like you ask you to stop for a moment and consider why you are here, why you got into punk in the first place. Don't be scared, we're with you.
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That's beautiful, man. But r'n'r = personal freedom, so I'm going to bed.
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Dear Penthouse or Maximum R'n'R Forum -
What the fuck is punk and who am I and why am I here and why won't somebody come and change my diaper?
So many questions.
Very few answers.
Love you til' I'm dead.
Sincerely,
Flabbooberblabooberbub
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(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3691/203014567l.jpg)
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(http://www.pokerimages.com/images/newimages/Cher_and_Elton_John_1975.jpg)
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That's beautiful, man. But r'n'r = personal freedom, so I'm going to bed.
"We all sleep alone."
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I got into punk to be there for Mitch.
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This thread sorely needs a
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41gC8xvVs6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/terminal01/2009/9/22/10/pinks-creepy-nude-bodysuit-nsfw-8547-1253629339-4.jpg)
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Looks like my typical Friday night.
har har har thank you. you've been a great audience.
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(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3691/203014567l.jpg)
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
in a couple hours i will be hanging out with rich and the hue blanc fuckers. looking quite forward to it.
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Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Officer Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
in a couple hours i will be hanging out with rich and the hue blanc fuckers. looking quite forward to it.
See you there, Officer Brad!
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hell yeah!
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shit, i missed this thread. would it be different if it were pabst blue ribbon footing the bill? or something "cool"? i've never read vice or know or care too much about them...maybe its a touchier subject. it doesnt seem like a huge deal. some of these bands have members that are not kids anymore, they are making a sacrifice (maybe) from a cozy, secure job or career to play music while they have real responsibilities waiting at home for them. i respect that. i certainly didnt flinch when i hear the reigning Sound riff in a Land Rover commercial, nor does it taint the song for me in anyway. im happy for the band and label who have done so much over the years to bring some sort of happiness to my life while going out on a limb just to do it.
It's one thing to give up a secure middle class existence in order to devote yourself to trying to make a living off your music instead, but who can blame someone for giving up a life of poorly paying service industry jobs if they can make equal or better money off their band? More power to 'em I say. Even if the band turns into just another job I'm sure it's more fulfilling than working at Subway.
i dont think many bands can pull that off, not bands people on here are talking about, for the most part. i dont know if "noble" is the right word, but i hold high respect for a band of older guys still doing it--very much respect. its a gamble for some people who have to choose between the semi-lucrative, cozy career or being in a band full throttle when you're not a kid anymore. so thats what they often go home to after touring for a month. making sandwiches for assholes. there are not many "real" jobs that allow or offer that double-life. ive struggled with that just owning the store (which pays about as well as being in a band--very little--with similar struggles about money, retirement, health care, security and being stand-up...dealing with downloaders, theives, etc).
thats no apology to sucking the corporate teeet, but the little i know about these singles and shows, just seems like a small bone being thrown at a hungry dog. same with licensing...is it different if it shows up in a movie for second? i think i hate hollywood as much as corporate america.
fuck i just got the bullshit last second outbid for a butthole surfers caso raro lp whilst reading this. 50 cents.
night. ruined.
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Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Officer Officer Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
in a couple hours i will be hanging out with rich and the hue blanc fuckers. looking quite forward to it.
See you there, Officer Officer Brad!
YOU LIE
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To me, at least in a certain spirit, the argument about selling out is almost the same as the argument about whether or not you personally like the people in a band. If I'm going to listen to a particular band or buy a particular album, it IS and SHOULD BE only a question of whether or not I happen to like the music. Why should it make a difference to my musical taste if said band has backing from this or that company? It shouldn't. Much the same way that I can enjoy listening to music put out by total assholes who I don't get along with personally. I know people in bands that I can't stand and would never hang out with, but I enjoy their talent because they put out good shit. And it's a total accident of preference that the vast majority of the music I enjoy is not typically mainstream or corporate sponsored, or on a major label for that matter.
In a way I consider corporate sponsorship really just a form of talent selling advertising, much the same way a lot of respectable publications do to stay afloat...a band sells a slot for a company to advertise it's product or service or whatever and in return the band gets a shot at a broader audience, better equipment, etc. and the relationship is then a symbiotic one.
I've heard the whole "corporations choosing which bands the public gets" argument too. That shitty bands get chosen by big names because they sound like every other butthole on the radio, but again, it's you, the listener, who has the responsibility to turn it off if you don't like it. Something offered as an option is not something that is chosen for you, it's just offered and you can choose to take or leave it.
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Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Officer Officer Officer Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
in a couple hours i will be hanging out with rich and the hue blanc fuckers. looking quite forward to it.
See you there, Officer Officer Officer Brad!
YOU LIE
Roommate bailed on me, couldn't afford the gas by myself. Bummed to have missed it.
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someone told me that Fugazi's got back together and are performing at corporate retreats for team-building exercises? anyone else heard this???
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Fleetwood Mac is much better than The Ex.
No more free beer for you, fuckhead.
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someone told me that Fugazi's got back together and are performing at corporate retreats for team-building exercises? anyone else heard this???
Yes, obviously true. Also, did you hear that Conflict are recording a commercial for McDonalds? I also heard that Steve Ignorant is a nazi. Also, Ian Mackaye is a heroin addict, but I guess everyone has heard knows that, right?
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can you imagine that McDonalds commercia?? i'm picturing it right now and loving it!
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Earth Crisis is reuniting for a "Raising Awareness About Planned Parenthood" tour.
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A brief excerpt from Crass's "Reality Asylum" was used in a commercial for Chick-Fil-A. FACT.
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Really, I should be calling the fucking shots and if I was I would deputize two people - denkinger and Officer Officer Officer Officer Officer Officer Brad x. Mitch and Richie could hang out with us, and maybe Rich from Floridas Dying and the Hue Blanc dudes because they are nuts, oh and Richard Adventure and Min, Lars and Erin. The rest of you fuckers would be in the fucking gulags or sucking our dicks.
in a couple hours i will be hanging out with rich and the hue blanc fuckers. looking quite forward to it.
See you there, Officer Officer Officer Officer Brad!
YOU LIE
Roommate bailed on me, couldn't afford the gas by myself. Bummed to have missed it.
it was a really really cool party. you missed it!
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FACT: The Chinese Restaurants sought a "synergy" deal with Motorola but were refused.
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FACT: Blixa Bargeld is the official spokesmensch for Germany's equivalent of Home Depot.
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FACT: The Chinese Restaurants sought a "synergy" deal with New Peking Sunrise Restaurant but were refused.
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True. The band has since been courting an eatery around the corner from Python Patrol called Chinese Musician Restaurant.
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The most appealing endorsement deal would be for that ladies' poo yoghurt that Jamie Lee Curtis eats.
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As if you could write a song as good as...."ActiviiiAAAAAAA." Go listen to some Cher records.
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Done and done. Here's Jamie enjoying the benefits of her yoghurt "therapy":
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_LP_YP0I7zZY/S4SAz_AEeQI/AAAAAAAADo0/HPxWjllfEwU/s400/Jamie+Lee+Curtis+01.jpg)
Ahhhhh!
Eric, sorry bro, but The Ex is just about the worst thing to listen to during a shiatsu session.
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I think that's why they did that In The Fishtank thing w/ Tortoise. For that express purpose.
IF I COULD TURN BACK TIME
FIND SOME WAY TO PROVE
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Here's a new song I wrote -- it's called "Gimme Zen":
I want Zen
Gimme Zen right now
Don't save it for later
I want Zen
Gimme Buddhist Zen
Don't wanna be a fellator
Don't wanna be religious
Don't wanna go to church
I'll never be a Hindu
I'll never be a Jew
I don't wanna meditate
I just wanna masturbate
For yoooooooou
It doesn't make any sense, but then again what does these days?
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You wanna see something REALLY fucking cringe inducing and WTF-torturous and AWESOME? Sign up for Scion's garage/whatever mailing list and hopefully get that email with all the links to their state-of-the-union industry strokefest called The Scion Music(less) Conference. I just got it 5 mins ago and I already want to cut my face off.
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please post it
or are you worried they won't invite you to the party and let you do the cocaine?
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www.scionav.com/mmc
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"To be an artist you have to do more than just make songs and perform them live. You need to be a business"
yeah hypeman contest!!!!!!!!!!!
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Very curious at what the timeline is on this nonsense. Are they just after some sort of long-term "lifestyle" branding that they expect to implant deep in our credulous subconscious, or is someone at Scion gonna realize at some point next month that flying 40 garage bands into Lawrence, Nebraska and handing out logo t-shirts at beardo metal concerts is having a less than negligible impact on sales of new compact cars to chronically under-employed slackers?
I say this as someone who freely admits having bought Sailor Jerry rum after being plyed with the stuff at a free DOA/BBQ gig they put on. But rum doesn't cost $17000+ or require insurance and a drivers license.
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friends don't let friends buy sailor jerry rum and scions
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Very curious at what the timeline is on this nonsense. Are they just after some sort of long-term "lifestyle" branding that they expect to implant deep in our credulous subconscious, or is someone at Scion gonna realize at some point next month that flying 40 garage bands into Lawrence, Nebraska and handing out logo t-shirts at beardo metal concerts is having a less than negligible impact on sales of new compact cars to chronically under-employed slackers?
I say this as someone who freely admits having bought Sailor Jerry rum after being plyed with the stuff at a free DOA/BBQ gig they put on. But rum doesn't cost $17000+ or require insurance and a drivers license.
I'm sure the idea is to make it look like Scion is part of some kind of gritty rock'n'roll underground and then use that to convince people with money to buy the cars. I don't think they think we are gonna buy any of these cars. Must work to some degree or they wouldn't keep doing it after two years.
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I will only buy a scion when it is 20+ years old andcosts under 500$. I would only buy sailor jerry if it were cheaper than admiral nelson.
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anyone got that new wizzard sleeve/true sons of thunder split? not my favorite record WS recrdings, but the wizzard sleeve side has the classic calvin pissing on something you hate image and he's pissing on scion. nice. chad is awesome.
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Very curious at what the timeline is on this nonsense. Are they just after some sort of long-term "lifestyle" branding that they expect to implant deep in our credulous subconscious, or is someone at Scion gonna realize at some point next month that flying 40 garage bands into Lawrence, Nebraska and handing out logo t-shirts at beardo metal concerts is having a less than negligible impact on sales of new compact cars to chronically under-employed slackers?
I say this as someone who freely admits having bought Sailor Jerry rum after being plyed with the stuff at a free DOA/BBQ gig they put on. But rum doesn't cost $17000+ or require insurance and a drivers license.
I'm sure the idea is to make it look like Scion is part of some kind of gritty rock'n'roll underground and then use that to convince people with money to buy the cars. I don't think they think we are gonna buy any of these cars. Must work to some degree or they wouldn't keep doing it after two years.
That's interesting. It reminds me of a bunch of girls watching some shitty indie pop band while a bunch of guys watch the girls watch the shitty indie pop band. They are both there.
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except who wants to fuck a bunch of gritty rock and roll types? twinks? bears?
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friends don't let friends buy sailor jerry rum and scions
I attended that promo gig with two other Termbo regs and safe to say we all had a great time. Got sloshed for free and saw one of my all-time favourite bands play songs I've loved for 25 years, perfectly acceptable way to spend a Tuesday night after work.
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MALIBU RUM
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friends don't let friends buy sailor jerry rum and scions
I attended that promo gig with two other Termbo regs and safe to say we all had a great time. Got sloshed for free and saw one of my all-time favourite bands play songs I've loved for 25 years, perfectly acceptable way to spend a Tuesday night after work.
mmmhmmm you misinterpreted my lame joke as to why you shouldn't or wouldn't be interested in a scion to somehow be a comment on me caring about what you do in your life or "selling out" or some such garbage
NO!
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All's I wanna know is how a real motherfucker like me can get on the gravy train...
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"Mystic Urchin Music"
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MALIBU RUM
MALI-BOOM!
(http://www.nysportsjournalism.com/storage/MalibuRumLogo.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1241110296883)
I wonder if Dana Shayegan likes MICKEY.
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If this is the future of music.
The dudes name is Gayshan.
Shit, this is funny.
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boxy ass cars and generally terrible music, makes sense
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free 20 bag of coke in the dashboard
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Very curious at what the timeline is on this nonsense. Are they just after some sort of long-term "lifestyle" branding that they expect to implant deep in our credulous subconscious, or is someone at Scion gonna realize at some point next month that flying 40 garage bands into Lawrence, Nebraska and handing out logo t-shirts at beardo metal concerts is having a less than negligible impact on sales of new compact cars to chronically under-employed slackers?
I say this as someone who freely admits having bought Sailor Jerry rum after being plyed with the stuff at a free DOA/BBQ gig they put on. But rum doesn't cost $17000+ or require insurance and a drivers license.
I'm sure the idea is to make it look like Scion is part of some kind of gritty rock'n'roll underground and then use that to convince people with money to buy the cars. I don't think they think we are gonna buy any of these cars. Must work to some degree or they wouldn't keep doing it after two years.
That's interesting. It reminds me of a bunch of girls watching some shitty indie pop band while a bunch of guys watch the girls watch the shitty indie pop band. They are both there.
This might be true. It's possible also that the goal at this stage of the campaign is not to sell cars just yet, but create brand awareness, and get people just thinking about Scion.
I think that's right. They're not really marketing to record nerds or people in bands. You stick the Scion brand next to enough of these events and products and eventually they become associated with youth culture. Doesn't make sense, doesn't have to. The audience for this music has grown a lot too, and it includes a lot of people who regard themselves primarily as consumers, not as players or even dedicated fans. I have a couple of good friends who are very much like this: they're not deeply committed to music, let alone punk; the names "Touch and Go," "feedtime," and "Tav Falco" mean nothing to them; but they love going to shows and will pay good money to see, for example, the Fresh and Onlys or The Gories, and they regularly go to shows at places like Death by Audio or Cake Shop. These friends of mine are intelligent, savvy people and probably won't be deciding their next automotive purchase on the basis of a Spits single. But the fact that they're part of the audience for this music suggests to me that there's thousands others who are probably not as discriminating as they are, a whole 'nother layer of consumers whose interest in music is even more casual than theirs, and for whom this marketing campaign works on a subliminal level: Scion = cool.
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your "good friends" are POSERS, man!!!!!!!!!!!
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dumb scion, i don't even have a drivers licence
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I got asked to join up with team Scion. Basically you have your name forever attached to Scion and in exchange you get free scion stuff, inclusion in their iphone "hip businesses" app, and get to give discounts to any card carrying members of team scion. Completely cringe inducing.
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Will trade: Nobunny Pink Raw Romance for two of either Scion Black Lips, Scion Nobunny, or Scion Strange Boys 7s.
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dumb scion, i don't even have a drivers licence
Because Fin's can't drive
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well its hard to catch fish from a car
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dumb scion, i don't even have a drivers licence
Because Fin's can't drive
Finns are among the best drivers on the planet, check out their amateur backroad races in shit cars sometime!
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dumb scion, i don't even have a drivers licence
Because Fin's can't drive
Finns are among the best drivers on the planet, check out their amateur backroad races in shit cars sometime!
True.
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UHHHGGG.
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http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-01
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http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-01
That thing is a chunk of shit. The Austin bit was retarded and I told them I could of summed up the whole scene in one sentence.
"Beerland, People go there and everyone is over weight and drinks PBR"
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Got the Nobunny/Jacuzzi Boys and Spits/Melchior 7"s up for grabs.
$18 each ppd.
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http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-01
Creative Direction: Scion
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Interesting factoid # 76996:
Because the "no major label" review policy, MaximumRocknRoll can no longer review any future records made by the bands who have been featured on these singles. No more Spits, Dan Melchior, Bad Sports, Davila 666, on and on etc etc.
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How does that policy work? Does it just cover the band or does it extend to band members. Like, can/will they still review Timmy's Organism records?
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The policy is that MRR doesn't review major label records OR bands that have made records for major labels.
Your Human Eye vs Timmy's Organism example is perfect: Because Human Eye made this one split single, they can no longer have any of their furute records reviewed, nor have an interview printed, by MRR. Columnists are free to write about them if they so choose.
Timmy's Organism is a different band all together, so there wouldn't be any change there. Same would apply to any other side project that any member of any of these bands did (Wax Museums = reviewed, Bad Sports = no review...etc etc etc).
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i don't think any of those bands will lose sleep over not having MRR review their records anymore...
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I'm sorry if this has been gone over before, but what is their criteria for major label? It extends to distribution too doesn't it? Like ADA is owned by WEA so any label that has ADA Distribution is out right?
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PUNK RULES.
did you see what i did there?
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Will trade: Nobunny Pink Raw Romance for two [different] of either Scion Black Lips, Scion Nobunny Scion Human Eye, or Scion Strange Boys 7s.
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seems like w/ all the older punk bands MRR covers, that at some point they've covered a band that's been on a major label at some point. Like are the Melvins not allowed to be covered cuz they were on a major 15 years ago?? The Ramones??
And does anyone have a copy of the Human Eye split they dont want?
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i don't think any of those bands will lose sleep over not having MRR review their records anymore...
150% agreed with you there.
I'm sorry if this has been gone over before, but what is their criteria for major label? It extends to distribution too doesn't it? Like ADA is owned by WEA so any label that has ADA Distribution is out right?
Yup, it extends to distribution as well. If exclusively distro'd by these major outlets, it's not permitted review.
seems like w/ all the older punk bands MRR covers, that at some point they've covered a band that's been on a major label at some point. Like are the Melvins not allowed to be covered cuz they were on a major 15 years ago?? The Ramones??
True, though none of their major label releases were reviewed. MRR would likely review a Ramones live bootleg, but never a reissue of "Rocket To Russia". The same could be said for any of those classic bands with major label releases (Black Flag, The Jam, Sex Pistols, etc etc etc).
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Is there a process where people sit around and look up things like who handles distribution for everything? What does this mean for Silver Shampoo? Not sure if that is going through ADA or not though
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Whoever is assigning the records for review is tasked with making sure that any given record falls within the guidelines. I assigned the records there for a couple years and can tell you that yes, a lot of time was spent checking certain bands/labels to determine if they fall within the review parameters. I'm positive the coordinators (who have handled the assigning since I stopped) are doing the same.
As far as Silver Shampoo goes, I don't know what Crazy Punx (right?) set-up is.
Also, I merely brought this up cuz I thought it was interesting, not as some MRR representative or anything. Sure, it bums me out that I won't be able to read about a lot of these bands in MRR anymore, but it's not world war III or anything. It's not some kind of smear campaign or personal crusade that MRR is launching either. It's just sticking to the parameters that have been in place for years. It's not only the "garage" shit that this is happening to either.
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I guess I should mention that I have no problem with it either. I just wanted to know more about it and how it worked. Not sure what the Crazy Punx set up is but it is a label run by Kevin from Whats Your Rupture and Ruben from The Coconut Coolouts. I'm pretty sure that WYR has some sort of ADA set up so I don't know if that stuff would go through the same channels.
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OK, I've got to know:
Siltbreeze was distributed by ADA for a while in the 90s > Dan Melchior was on that Siltbreeze 10" a while back, post-ADA deal > therefore he was already polluted, in MRR's eyes?
Pedantically yours,
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I guess I should mention that I have no problem with it either. I just wanted to know more about it and how it worked. Not sure what the Crazy Punx set up is but it is a label run by Kevin from Whats Your Rupture and Ruben from The Coconut Coolouts. I'm pretty sure that WYR has some sort of ADA set up so I don't know if that stuff would go through the same channels.
I distinctly remember assigning the Tyvek 2x7" WYR put out when it came in at MRR a few years ago. That said, I don't recall if I noticed any red flag (one sheet with distribution listed, "production and distribution courtesy of "XXXXX" on the label or sleeve, etc) that was thrown up regarding WYR that caused me to check it or whatever. I assigned it though, so there ya go.
Obviously, with as many different labels, bands and distributors that send releases in for any given issue of MRR, things are going to fall through the cracks. This'll be readily apparent when the new issue with a review of Davila 666's new LP makes it's way to stands. There's no magic machine or even all-inclusive checklist to run each record through. So yeah...It's not a 100% exact science, but a consistent one.
OK, I've got to know:
Siltbreeze was distributed by ADA for a while in the 90s > Dan Melchior was on that Siltbreeze 10" a while back, post-ADA deal > therefore he was already polluted, in MRR's eyes?
Pedantically yours,
Siltbreeze has plenty of records that get reviewed in MRR. As far as a label jumping from ADA to Revolver and gaining review status in the process, well, I can't answer that one.
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I would like to state for the record: I have tried to sell out, many times, many many times; but no one will have me. I blame Mitch.
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Have you tried flashing a little thigh, when Mitch is looking the other way?
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I would like to state for the record: I have tried to sell out, many times, many many times; but no one will have me.
I, too, do not intend to turn any checks away...
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Have you tried flashing a little thigh, when Mitch is looking the other way?
More than a little thigh.
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Isn't "major label" a fairly meaningless concept at this point?
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"Record label" is near meaningless at this point.
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So is "magazine," I guess.
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I am just waiting for the ice flow.
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And does anyone have a copy of the Human Eye split they dont want?
I do. It's my now ex's. I am sure she will not mind
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RULES ARE RULES. I seriously think it's great MRR still follows the policy.
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MRR has been getting really funny letters, boo hoo your fuckin crummyband can't be in MRR anymore. Shilling for corporations is one thing, but sheesh, most of these bands fuckin stink to begin with, and anyways you're schilling for what has to be the lamest popular car on the market. I say as a representative for Maximum Rock and Roll and in fact punks in general that if this was, say, an American car that these crappy bands (Davilla 666 and such) were putting out crappy records for then things would be a lot different. That said, a huge picture of Timmy Vulgar from a Human Eye gig is used on the back cover like every month as an ad for MRR ("LOL")
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(http://www.seanpercival.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/1976_amc_gremlin.jpeg)
BROUGHT TO YOU BY AMERICAN MOTORS CORPORATION
concept art for the CHEVY NOVA
(http://www.deviantart.com/download/104782653/1969_Chevy_Nova_SS_by_GTStudio.jpg)
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I'm neutral on the policy, I think it's kinda quaint and all but any edge it had originally is lost due to the passage of time. It reminds me of the time Mr. Magoo fought the windmill and totally won. These records have a lower press run than a lot of "indie" records when it comes down to it. Then again, a large international car company is more in line with an appropriate corporate boycott than Geffen, if Geffen in fact still exists. How about Chrysalis? Also, someone should inform them that nowadays most people bypass the label regardless of its majority/non-majority and download everything for free anyway.
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I'm also ambivalent about this. It's their magazine, and they can do what they want. Where I sixteen again and completely divorced from any means of finding out about bands I might like other than MRR (which is how things were back in the mid-nineties) then I'd probably be bummed about this. As it is, I'm kind of happy that the current coordinators are keeping the idiosyncrasies of Tim Yo intact to this day. I haven't read an issue of MRR since I submitted a Firestarter interview like seven years ago but I've got nothing against 'em. I just don't care about most of what they cover and don't need to use MRR to find music anymore.
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What do bands expect engaging in that kinda behavior in the first place? I'm assuming they do it for money and exposure, so why do they need something as "quaint" as MRR anymore anyway?
I think it says a lot about these bands too that instead of getting real jobs like the rest of us, or at least selling drugs thee sackless, lazy turds instead shill for car companies.
I don't count Timmy or Human Eye among these bands though. He was selling out since Clone Defects, wasn't he? They were on a car commercial, right? Dude/band is still punker than 98% of what's covered in that zine.
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Right, that's kind of the point, isn't it? I can make those judgement calls myself. So can most adults. But I understand and appreciate why these rules were imposed in the first place.
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So is "magazine," I guess.
There's so few independent print mags with any distribution at this point...one goes down about every other month it seems to the point where there's really just a few left I even read: Big Takeover, Roctober, MRR, Ugly Things. Sad to see Signal To Noise go...
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Oh man, Tvyek are doing the Scion thing now too?
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At one point I might have cared. I don't any more. Plenty of the people taking the moral high ground on this have come up with nice PC justifications for download whatever music they want with no thought about the impact on small bands or labels. They call it sharing, but sharing is something you do when you take something that belongs to you and give it to someone else. Labor and creativity are a premium and if they result in something good enough to be "shared" those people should be compensated - not at some corporate high, major label profit level, but at something sustainable, something that pays the bills and at least gives the people doing the shit work minimum wage level pay. If they can't make that then these people will go for outside funds, whether that be flipping burgers, working an office job, or selling their songs to Scion. You tell me what is worse, working for the government or an insurance corporation shuffling papers or licensing a song for a Doritto's ad? Leave out aesthetics. Does an advertisement do more damage than an insurance adjuster whose goal is to screw you? Or a weapons system approval form you just sent on its way in your DOD office job? Or the crap you are forced to teach younglings in the fucking school district you shill for? Different degrees of compromise, different degrees of evil. Now which one affords you the time and space to do what the fuck you really want to do. i.e. make music? I'd say that is selling a fucking diddy to the Home Depot for background music to advertise rakes. Sorry, but this situation was not created by the musicians or bands or small labels: It was created by the greed of major labels, who set prices on new CD releases so high they created an atmosphere that gave people the excuse to download whatever they want for free. And if we are to place blame to actions, the fault is with the fans who refuse to pay for new music.
I wish my sales reflected the listenership of my label and the positive chat and critical hurrahs. It doesn't: Year after year, as the bands become more hyped and records more listened to my sales have fallen. Part of this is due to the economy, but moreso it is due to a cultural shift where people dont think twice about DLing my stuff and not sending me some cash to pay for my fucking expenses. I would love to compensate my bands something more than a piddly percentage of the pressing. I can't. I would love to eek out a modest living schlepping quality music, make a little money for stuffing fucking records in sleeves and packing boxes up and a hundred other mind-numbing, crap work tasks that spell out the romance of the "record industry." Unfortunately my "fans" won't allow this, because my "fans" don't think that my labor or my bands creativity is worth a shit. They do feel entitled to upload it to their blog and run google ads so that they can make money, but god forbid I accept some cash from Johnson & Johnson so that "Plastica" can be used to pimp Q-Tips.
So yeah, MRR policy is quaint and it is charming and I really have no problem with it. But this is a different time. Save this "Well, the Clone Defects sold out a long time ago" bullshit for the Op Ivy reunion tour or start writing fucking checks to the labels and bands you rip off daily by DLing their music thinking there is no impact. And, please, save the "It is done to me all the time; so I can do it myself." That is nothing but moral retardation, reasoning apt for a stupid 14 year-old. If you want to take the moral high ground than live the moral high ground.
Sermon over.
PS. By "fans" I do not mean people who support the label and bands by buying stuff.
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Stuff it, old man. I don't download music these days. I trade my own records for other people's stuff when I wanna hear something new. It's a costly habit, but I'm accountable for it.
People can feel free to do what they want. Some of these people are friends of mine. It's not like I think they should be kicked out of punk or should be shunned in social situations, I just think the shit is cheesy as fuck and it's evidence of real short term thinking. Who cares if you get an extra grand right now to spend on blow and a few hotel rooms while you're on tour if you're forever remembered as one of those cornball bands who had a car company logo on your records?
Excuse me for finding it ironic (?) that a band who entered our consciousness with a single whose refrain was "Can you drive a Honda?" is now using their music to sell cars.
Me? I'd rather just do some shit job like I always have, or sell drugs, or steal from bands with car company deals to pay for my own creative endeavors. Sure, it makes life a lot more difficult, but at least I won't have to explain to my kids someday why punk rockers chuckle when they pass us on the street.
It's ultimately just fucking lazy, and NOT PUNK. I've had to deal with some of this shit myself already, not through Pink Reason, but I've played in a band who had a booking agent and all it resulted in was the band having to make compromises they weren't happy with for shitty service. You play with crappy bands to people who don't care, but you get a shitty guarantee that you have to give a percentage of to the person who did the job for you that if you're not a complete idiot you can do a much better job of yourself.
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GIMME GIMME GIMME
GARAGE ROCK MONEY
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
GIMME GIMME GIMME
A SCION HAT HONEY
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Heard a rumor that this gravy train done left the station. I'm sure one day we'll remember the heady days of the late 00s and those high-flyin' Scion times.
Also, Brace brings up a really good point. It's OK to use Timmy Vulgar's image to help sell/promote your "product," but one of his bands is now dead to you? (in fact, the band featured in the picture) hip-o-crizzy
Anyway, I agree, it's your shit, whatever. I think MRR right now is better than it has been in a long long time, maybe since I've been reading it. And that's swell. Good to know it's pretzel-logic contradictions are still intact. I'd love to really research some of those bands featured in ads and see where it leads. There's some real bogus shit shilled in there. But I kinda love that ass-backwards community bulletin board aspect of it. It's like, "Here's punk rock, shit-ton of warts and all."
Also, so many people love the gimmicky records of the 50/60/70/80s, gee that's a long time, that shilled for all sorts of giant corporations. In 20 years, are people gonna think Scion on records are cute and cool and desirable? Not with that art, sez I....but I digress...
Excuse me for finding it ironic (?) that a band who entered our consciousness with a single whose refrain was "Can you drive a Honda?" is now using their music to sell cars.
Fuck irony, it's hilarious. Cuz they're helping to sell, y'know, Toyotas. Also, it could be argued, if you wanna get deep, that "Honda," surely a modern-classic of a sort, is an ad in itself. For Honda. Irony or no. That song rules right? Kinda wanna makes you wanna drive right? Maybe a Honda, eh?
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Also, I don't get why the only options these people have is to work for some insurance company or the DOD or Scion. Maybe I don't get it because as a PUNK those kind of options were never available to me. I've been stuck doing things like building saw mill equipment at small family owned businesses, baking for a small family owned business, selling antiques for a small independently owned, punk run business or making my own green cleaning products and scrubbing eco-conscious people's toilets for a living.
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So you are fine with explaining to your kids: Well, daddy is a toilet scrubber because he really really felt it important to stay true to the path of PUNK and not offend its gods of misplaced morality.
Sorry Kev, I don't buy this "poverty is a virtue" bullshit, nor do I think that "artists" need to struggle to make great works. I also dont believe that we should all be money grubbing pigs either. People should pay for what they use. Period. If they did, we wouldnt have this discussion. If they did, few little bands would be tempted to make some rent money putting out a Scion single.
And I wouldnt be so preachy if it wasnt for the years of "fans" outright lying that they only DL to "check shit out", that they will buy if they like. Not true, not true at all. And it pisses me off because I want to put out records. I want to put out noncommercial records at reasonable prices with pressing sizes that do not encourage ebay speculation. I am finding that I can't. I do the paid digital thing. How much did the label make over the 4th quarter of 2010? A little over 400 bucks. That does not cover sales lost. Unfortunately the choice is heading to the collector limited pressing market or licensing. I dont like either of these choices.
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the concept of imparting punk values to your children.
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the concept of imparting punk values to your children.
Junior, PBR is way more punk than that fancy microbrew. Now go get daddy a beer.
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I think the whole Scion thing is retarded, and the fact that they have started this card carrying cult now is beyond creepy, but on the scales of evil I think booking agents like Peter Davis are far worse than this stupid car company. Also the lines of what is and what is not punk have been so blurred at this point that I think in the long run no one will even notice. It is becoming life as we know it. If someone wanted to use a song I had released for a car commercial and were going to pay both me and the band about $15,000 a piece it would be hard for me to turn down. I can tell you for sure though that the money would not go to blow and hotel rooms it would go to making sure more of my friends records could be released. SSR hit it pretty much on the head though and it goes beyond downloading. I finally quit booking shows because I got tired of fighting kids to get $5 out of them so I could pay a touring band. Most punks aren't poor they are cheap. When it comes time to give money to come to the show they don't have any but they have no problems giving their money to huge corporations like Budweiser. These same fucks then turn around and point their fingers and yell "sell out" at a band. Vans don't run on good vibes and punk points they take gas.
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Shit, nobody said being an artist was supposed to be easy. Where do people these days get their sense of entitlement? Sure, shit sucks right now and it's harder than it should be, but you don't create positive change by giving up and buying in.
And yeah, I will raise my kids with "punk" values, because those were the values I was raised with, and they're values that I am proud to share with my family.
Nothing wrong with washing dishes, either. The world needs dishwashers. It's honest work. Fortunately for me, I have skills available to me that will hopefully keep me from washing dishes when my kids are growing up, but hell, when I moved to NYC I found a job as a dishwasher three days later and worked my way up to bartender where I was able to help friends of ours like Erick and Pascal get jobs at the place. Pascal is now a manager there.
And please, stop blaming me for your label not making money. When I want to hear something you carry, I send you records in trade for it. I have never downloaded anything off of S-S.
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When it comes time to give money to come to the show they don't have any but they have no problems giving their money to huge corporations like Budweiser.
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If someone wanted to use a song I had released for a car commercial and were going to pay both me and the band about $15,000 a piece it would be hard for me to turn down.
And that's why I like labels like Florida's Dying and S-S and support them any way I know how. I'd have a hard time turning down fifteen grand myself as well, but realistically I don't know that it'd be a good path for me even if it presented itself to me. I mean, look at what all Jay Reatard's money got him? A fucking pathetic freebase overdose. Yay.
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Back in the summer of 2009, we traded in my junker mini-van that I payed $500 for 4 years previously (and it still ran!) for a Scion XD (that's not the super boxy one) via the Cash For Clunkers program! It's the wife who had good credit, so it was mainly her deal, and she wanted a Scion. I think this was before they went all "garage-rock"! It's a decent little car. No regrets. Call me a sellout, because we took advantage of a momentary government program, and got a brand new car for probably the only time in our lives for about $5,000 less than the sticker price. And now that SCION = GARAGE, we are now HIPSTERS as well. WINNING!
PUNK = FINDING A GOOD DEAL.
OLD LADIES CLIPPING OUT COUPONS = PUNK.
Scion should hook up with Car And Driver magazine for a "punk-garage" zine called Maximum Car'n'Driver.
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If someone wanted to use a song I had released for a car commercial and were going to pay both me and the band about $15,000 a piece it would be hard for me to turn down.
And that's why I like labels like Florida's Dying and S-S and support them any way I know how. I'd have a hard time turning down fifteen grand myself as well, but realistically I don't know that it'd be a good path for me even if it presented itself to me. I mean, look at what all Jay Reatard's money got him? A fucking pathetic freebase overdose. Yay.
Haha. Yeah you don't need $15,000.
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Kevin - Not blaming you and it isn't about "making money" if you mean that in the snide way Punker Than Thou's do. It is about paying the bills. Rich has it right with
Most punks aren't poor they are cheap. When it comes time to give money to come to the show they don't have any but they have no problems giving their money to huge corporations like Budweiser. These same fucks then turn around and point their fingers and yell "sell out" at a band. Vans don't run on good vibes and punk points they take gas.
Fact is a lot if not most of the people DLing shit are doing fine. They have nice computers and internet connections and go to college and have good paying jobs. They just feel entitled to do this shit.
Listen, if we were in Albania or some shit country and we were talking about peasants DLing whatever because they were shit poor, I'd say, Great, DL all you want, then sell your fucking computer and get out in the fields and pick me some beets.
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the concept of imparting punk values to your children.
Junior, PBR is way more punk than that fancy microbrew. Now go get daddy a beer.
PBR is corporate. Sprecher is punk. Pay the extra dough for independent micro-brew punk beer with better taste and more alcohol.
If you're gonna be cheap, at least get Hamm's, because it's more punk than PBR or any of that shit.
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If someone wanted to use a song I had released for a car commercial and were going to pay both me and the band about $15,000 a piece it would be hard for me to turn down.
And that's why I like labels like Florida's Dying and S-S and support them any way I know how. I'd have a hard time turning down fifteen grand myself as well, but realistically I don't know that it'd be a good path for me even if it presented itself to me. I mean, look at what all Jay Reatard's money got him? A fucking pathetic freebase overdose. Yay.
That's what happens if you give that kinda money to a junkie. Give it to me and you have a GrObcomplete discography vinyl boxset in the works....thanks to the Nothing People for Dodge Caravan!
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I just find the whole thing kinda pathetic. You guys are right about the sense of entitlement of the "fans" who don't wanna support these artists while blowing their money on corporate shit like McDonald's or Budweiser.
It's not an excuse for bands engaging in this kind of behavior though. My dad was writing a college paper about corporate interests in public schools. People refuse to pay for kids' educations so now corporations are signing contracts with schools to push Coke in schools or they get millions to hire McDonald's to do hot lunch. A lot of people are like "sure, it sucks, but our kids need an education one way or another" but I'm like "teach 'em yer fuckin' self then, you lazy bastards!"
I no longer buy cheap mass produced beer. We're working really hard to be self-sufficient and we're buying locally grown shit, supporting small business. Shit ain't easy, but it's what *I* have to do for myself to not feel like a total douchebag.
Other people can sell cars for Scion if that's what they wanna do, but yeah, I am going to say it's stupid and inform people that it's not the only option, it's just the one that lazy fuckin' hipster douchebags who have nothing to do with punk take.
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So back when they had that Lawrence Kansas festacular, there was some brief talk about flying "bloggers" down there to cover it. I was one of these bloggers (even though I didn't have a blog at the time). My plan was to get totally Gonzoid and ingest and digest as much as possible and try to wipe my dick on the veil of the Scion corporate conspiracy. And pull it back with that dick.
Of course, it all came to naught. But it would've been fun. And it would've all been for you, dear Termbo.
I wish Apple would use "Fat Guy with an iPod." That would be the best shit ever.
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Don't get me wrong though. If I got asked to have my band put out a 7" by a car company I would say fuck no. That shit is gay. If they asked to put one of my songs in BMW commercial though, that would be kind of hard to pass up. However, I don't think you could pay me enough to have a song in a Wal Mart commercial.
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The US has a very weird thing going on, where we expect high services but dont think we should have to pay for them. People complain about bad roads but dont want to pay taxes for highway funds. They feel ripped off because they pay what they think are high prices for shit and so they have no problem with cheating. We have this Win At All Costs/If You Arent Cheating You Arent Trying/It Is Only Cheating When You Get Caught thing that runs through our culture. Parents give kids lavish praise for things that they should do as a matter of course. We call people heroes for being polite. We think we are the best country ever and no one can tell us what to do, how to act, or that we might be just another country. We renamed french fries freedom fries because another country wouldnt support our foreign policy. Combine all that and you get a lot of people with a feeling of entitlement.
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its time for a dictatorship.
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its time for a dictatorship.
I win!
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C'mon. The silhouette? A fat dude? A fat dude's silhouette? Dancing? to LFD? to "Fat Guy with an iPod?" doin his thang?
THAT WOULD FUCKING RULE
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C'mon. The silhouette? A fat dude? A fat dude's silhouette? Dancing? to LFD? to "Fat Guy with an iPod?" doin his thang?
THAT WOULD FUCKING RULE
(http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/255/PreviewComp/SuperStock_255-12320D.jpg)
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its time for a dictatorship.
I win!
I'm serious. We need some big mean daddy to kick our asses in line, and make people realize that there is real shit out there that is worth crying over and we have yet to experience most of it. All these pussies need to be beat into shape. Time to start lining up scumbags in the street.
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its time for a dictatorship.
I win!
I'm serious. We need some big mean daddy to kick our asses in line, and make people realize that there is real shit out there that is worth crying over and we have yet to experience most of it. All these pussies need to be beat into shape. Time to start lining up scumbags in the street.
You know the first scumbags they would line up would be those of us who truck in degenerate art.
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its time for a dictatorship.
I win!
I'm serious. We need some big mean daddy to kick our asses in line, and make people realize that there is real shit out there that is worth crying over and we have yet to experience most of it. All these pussies need to be beat into shape. Time to start lining up scumbags in the street.
You know the first scumbags they would line up would be those of us who truck in degenerate art.
Thats why that dictator needs to be one of us two
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And please, stop blaming me for your label not making money. When I want to hear something you carry, I send you records in trade for it.
Wish I could do this at the grocery store or for the light bill.
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And yeah, I will raise my kids with "punk" values, because those were the values I was raised with, and they're values that I am proud to share with my family.
If I had kids, I'd raise them "hair metal tribute band" style, because, at least they'd be able to pay the bills now and then with extra gig money added to whatever landscaping and concrete finishing wages they'd pull in....
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its time for a dictatorship.
I win!
I'm serious. We need some big mean daddy to kick our asses in line, and make people realize that there is real shit out there that is worth crying over and we have yet to experience most of it. All these pussies need to be beat into shape. Time to start lining up scumbags in the street.
You know the first scumbags they would line up would be those of us who truck in degenerate art.
Thats why that dictator needs to be one of us two
I say we co-dictate. We could play good cop/bad cop, but to fuck people up we would change roles every week.
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The following post, "Re: Scion/Vice 7"s" by SSR has been reported by k. on a board you moderate:
http://terminal-boredom.com/forums/index.php?topic=28216.msg590296#msg590296
The reporter has made the following comment:
Regards,
The terminal-boredom.com Team.
YOU WILL BE THE FIRST TO GO!
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And please, stop blaming me for your label not making money. When I want to hear something you carry, I send you records in trade for it.
Wish I could do this at the grocery store or for the light bill.
Maybe you can? You ever try? I live in a farming community. Luckily some of the farmers happen to be Pink Reason fans.
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And please, stop blaming me for your label not making money. When I want to hear something you carry, I send you records in trade for it.
Wish I could do this at the grocery store or for the light bill.
Maybe you can? You ever try? I live in a farming community. Luckily some of the farmers happen to be Pink Reason fans.
YOUR FRUITY FARMERS WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM THE COMBINED MIGHT OF THE FD/SS DICTATORSHIP!
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i got in an argument with a friend about this the other night. scion is the lamest bullshit ever, and the bands who take advantage of this are weak. i would never compromise my ethics and values to make money, especially from a stupid corporation that is the complete opposite of everything i feel strongly about. fuck that, i agree with kevin on almost everything he's said, but i understand what SSR is saying too. it just sucks that people are so lazy and fucking stupid. entitlement is bullshit, and this modern trend of instant self gratification is no excuse for being a shitty person.
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Jeeze, it must be so hard to be a punk as a rich, entitled city kid who never had to work for anything in their lives before these days. I really feel for 'em.
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Jeeze, it must be so hard to be a punk as a rich, entitled city kid who never had to work for anything in their lives before these days. I really feel for 'em.
yeah no shit. the kid who i was arguing with is 23, has never had a job in his life, parents pay for everything, car, apartment, college, you name it. the whole time he was arguing i was just thinking "yeah, it's easy for you to say all this shit when you've never had to lift a finger in your fucking life and you can just swipe mommy and daddys plastic whenever you want something". it kind of makes me angry because i work hard for my money and i have to be really frugal to make ends meet. i'm doing 40+ hours a week of manual labor all summer in the humid as fuck midwest heat to help pay for school. getting an education might not be considered "punk" or anything but atleast when i am done i will know that i earned it MYSELF with my head and my own two hands, and i think that is something to be proud of.
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the kid who i was arguing with is 23, has never had a job in his life, parents pay for everything, car, apartment, college, you name it.
The beauty of punk rock is that you can kick the shit out of these creeps and your friends will love you for it.
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"Punk means never having to say you're sorry" - Shaun Failure
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the kid who i was arguing with is 23, has never had a job in his life, parents pay for everything, car, apartment, college, you name it.
The beauty of punk rock is that you can kick the shit out of these creeps and your friends will love you for it.
I guess for me this has always been an important part of punk rock. Maybe it's because I'm a boneheaded thug who was picked on too much and is trying to overcompensate, but I like that this is something that belong to US and if people fuck with it, my friends and I will join together to enact change, physically. If we're at the party and we don't want you there, you're leaving.
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i'm trying to keep all the rules straight, is Tony Rettman punk? He does write for vice.
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You really need someone to read you the rules for you? I don't understand what's so hard to get here. It's all pretty obvious to me.
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The one thing that you can always count on with punk is that people will argue forever about what is punk and who is selling out to whom. Still got spares of the Nobunny/Jacuzzi Boys and Spits/Melchior singles up for grabs.
And yes, El_rick, a total shame Steve Jobs never got wind of "Fat Guy". Been trying to get Wolfman to reprise it now that the iPad 2 has hit the streets but so far no dice.
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Yeah, as long as their are people trying to exploit our experiences for their income, there will be people out there saying it's not "punk." You can count on that.
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i'm trying to keep all the rules straight, is Tony Rettman punk? He does write for vice.
Kevin also has written for Vice. NOT PUNK
Oh no Kev, is your punk castle crumbling all around you?
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I tease. Of course Kevin is the punkest of them all.
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I agree, writing for Vice isn't very punk of me. I'll make up for it by turning tons of kids onto psychedelic drugs. VERY PUNK.
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I tease. Of course Kevin is the punkest of them all.
Timmy Vulgar advertises MRR while taking money from the corporations. PUNK.
Whining about how your band isn't covered by MRR anymore now that you're selling cars with your records. NOT PUNK.
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i got a new record on black gladiator coming up. i like the band cuz they're at the number one spot of fucked up bands in the world and they're letting me do it because i have zero corporate involvement, and shun it.
just stating my position.
later!
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Taking all the money Scion gave a band and buying drugs with them PUNK
Band taking money from Scion NOT PUNK
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Isn't Bruce the one who was just bitching about people coming to him for a record "too late?" This is part of the problem, the limited edition fetish bullshit. People used to press the amount of records they thought/hoped to sell, and repress if they went out of print in a reasonable amount of time, because they were in the music business. Now you get pressings of 100 for bands that sell 750 and a million color variations to prey on the insecurities of hoarders and schlubs aching for social inclusion (or whatever perpetuates the game, I have no idea).
I realize that it's perceived as part of the deal nowadays in order to sell more records, but it's poor methodology for attracting "fans" who want to buy records instead of downloading everything. Downloading has helped destroy the vinyl market in unexpected ways, even during a "resurgence." If a band gets big and everyone likes them, every piece of material gets pressed somewhere, and some people want every piece. At that point, there is the leverage to gouge the people who simply want to pick up a record by a band they like.
For me, I go to a lot of shows and see a lot of bands (paying them to get into the show, buying merch if I like them enough), and "luckily" there aren't more than a handful of bands I give a shit about right now. I don't download newly available stuff because of all the reasons above. I do download 60s/70s stuff that's hard to find. Thousands of 'em. But no matter how much I like your band, I'm done tracking down manufactured rarities. I'll download that shit in a second. Rich, Scott, and many others don't play this game, of course.
As for MRR - quaint. Best intentions, a bit misguided, but I guess that's the way it's always been. Scion sponsoring a show (free merch and the name on the flyer) to me isn't a big deal. Releasing its own records makes everyone involved smell cheesy, but honestly I would have cared more a couple years ago when most of those bands were relevant. And as mentioned elsewhere, Ramones shilled, garage bands shilled, etc., and now it's considered cute. There's really little difference, but I guess the Ramones and those 60s bands weren't "punk." Or were they?!? I don't spend any time mulling this over, it's all sniff test. Timmy passes, other stuff asses.
Also, someone gave me the Scion "zine," and it was incredibly poorly written and off base. Weird that Costello was involved...and someone else I know, can't remember. All artifice. And therein lies the real problem. Make a great record and press enough for everyone to buy a copy. Both are in short supply right now, regardless of Scion/MRR/dishwashing/Ramones/standard creepy poodles.
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A show I put on was sponsored by scion. It was bizarre. Here's how it worked for us at least -
show was booked (hawks, chronic youth, grids, bukake boys, double negative), and the primary booking agent at the venue calls me and offers for it to be a "scion sponsored event". Basically, scion let him do X-number of events. There was a cardboard box of "scion merch" sitting on the floor near the far end of the merch tables, and I don't think it was ever opened. He took the flyer I made, taped a scion logo on it, and took a picture with his phone to email to scion to prove he'd promoted it like a scion event.
Then on the day of the show I got to pay the bands a little more, and no one had any idea it was scion anything.
It wasn't punk or whatever, but we did literally nothing and were given a few hundred bucks.
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A show I put on was sponsored by scion. It was bizarre. Here's how it worked for us at least -
show was booked (hawks, chronic youth, grids, bukake boys, double negative), and the primary booking agent at the venue calls me and offers for it to be a "scion sponsored event". Basically, scion let him do X-number of events. There was a cardboard box of "scion merch" sitting on the floor near the far end of the merch tables, and I don't think it was ever opened. He took the flyer I made, taped a scion logo on it, and took a picture with his phone to email to scion to prove he'd promoted it like a scion event.
Then on the day of the show I got to pay the bands a little more, and no one had any idea it was scion anything.
It wasn't punk or whatever, but we did literally nothing and were given a few hundred bucks.
still makes you a customer.
IGNORE.
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A show I put on was sponsored by scion. It was bizarre. Here's how it worked for us at least -
show was booked (hawks, chronic youth, grids, bukake boys, double negative), and the primary booking agent at the venue calls me and offers for it to be a "scion sponsored event". Basically, scion let him do X-number of events. There was a cardboard box of "scion merch" sitting on the floor near the far end of the merch tables, and I don't think it was ever opened. He took the flyer I made, taped a scion logo on it, and took a picture with his phone to email to scion to prove he'd promoted it like a scion event.
Then on the day of the show I got to pay the bands a little more, and no one had any idea it was scion anything.
It wasn't punk or whatever, but we did literally nothing and were given a few hundred bucks.
I can't believe you cannot see how big of a douchebag this makes you!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLNTevxabhA
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Without douchebags, it would be impossible to douche.
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Without douchebags, it would be impossible to douche.
I guess it's nice to be surrounded by folks who remind me how punk I am at all times.
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A show I put on was sponsored by scion. It was bizarre. Here's how it worked for us at least -
show was booked (hawks, chronic youth, grids, bukake boys, double negative), and the primary booking agent at the venue calls me and offers for it to be a "scion sponsored event". Basically, scion let him do X-number of events. There was a cardboard box of "scion merch" sitting on the floor near the far end of the merch tables, and I don't think it was ever opened. He took the flyer I made, taped a scion logo on it, and took a picture with his phone to email to scion to prove he'd promoted it like a scion event.
Then on the day of the show I got to pay the bands a little more, and no one had any idea it was scion anything.
It wasn't punk or whatever, but we did literally nothing and were given a few hundred bucks.
I can't believe you cannot see how big of a douchebag this makes you!
it looks like he got over on some dumbass company and got to hook up some bands in the process. FUCK PUNK. I understand the importance of integrity(sponsorships on everything...yeh it is cheesy) but fools are meant to be whipped too. so if some dumb ad guy wants to throw some $ around for the right to put a small logo on a flyer then so be it.
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Wrong!
What he did was he sold MY fucking "authenticity". You don't even wanna know everything I had to do to earn that! He didn't have any to begin with, so he sold something that didn't belong to him in the first place. I don't know about you, but my friends and I don't dig it when people steal from us. We deal with thieves in unkind ways. Duh.
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deed.s...
its all about the fly ins...
just use the fucking shit out of scion for that
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Do dudes in the metal scene get their studded codpieces in a bind about Scion Metal? Serious question.
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Do dudes in the metal scene get their studded codpieces in a bind about Scion Metal? Serious question.
Ever read anything about Norwegian black metal? They killed people over this shit. So, yeah.
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I'm talking about in the good old US of A, brother.
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I'm talking about in the good old US of A, brother.
When was the last time there was a relevant new metal band that came from the US?
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I can tell you with certainty that in places like Chile, where metal is something real and tangible much like punk rock is in many places across the globe, people do care about the underground and DIY ethics quite a bit. A buddy of mine down there who recently published a book on the history of Chilean metal is working on a book right now on this particular subject: metal and the "underground."
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I'm talking about in the good old US of A, brother.
When was the last time there was a relevant new metal band that came from the US?
That's not really pertinent. I figured there's probably a bunch of pizza and wizard metal bands that are reaping the rewards of those Scion shows.
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I'm out of touch with this shit, but I'm pretty sure it's not pizza and wizards but hipsters who grew up listening to shit like Cave In trying to make shoegaze these days.
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scion doing this is so bizzare str8 up
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A show I put on was sponsored by scion. It was bizarre. Here's how it worked for us at least -
show was booked (hawks, chronic youth, grids, bukake boys, double negative), and the primary booking agent at the venue calls me and offers for it to be a "scion sponsored event". Basically, scion let him do X-number of events. There was a cardboard box of "scion merch" sitting on the floor near the far end of the merch tables, and I don't think it was ever opened. He took the flyer I made, taped a scion logo on it, and took a picture with his phone to email to scion to prove he'd promoted it like a scion event.
Then on the day of the show I got to pay the bands a little more, and no one had any idea it was scion anything.
It wasn't punk or whatever, but we did literally nothing and were given a few hundred bucks.
I can't believe you cannot see how big of a douchebag this makes you!
Kevin I miss you. Come down to Florida. I'll come out of retirement, book your show at a place no one likes to pay to get into shows at, and we can strong arm em for money.
I actually have to do that tomorrow. Some guy booked a show in my parking lot for Broken Water and Diet Cokeheads and now he can't be there to collect donations, so I get to do it. I think I'm going to go person to person and ask "Would you like to give donations to the touring bands or would you rather be an asshole." That way when they don't I can announce to everyone present that "This guy wants to be an asshole cause he doesn't feel touring bands deserve to be paid. Anyone who would like to join him let me know so I can publicly out you as well."
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I'm out of touch with this shit, but I'm pretty sure it's not pizza and wizards but hipsters who grew up listening to shit like Cave In trying to make shoegaze these days.
The Scion metal shows are either bad hardcore like Trash Talk and Pulling Teeth (which is funny that they can call a spade a spade, unlike those bands) or bands that appear to be actual metal that I don't care to further investigate.
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I would prefer not to deal with this Scion shit and I don't buy any records by any of the bands that do it anymore, but whatever, it's their life and ultimately EVERYONE has a price. I drive a Honda, how does that fit in with all of this? I don't know.
I do know that it would help if people actually valued music AT ALL; this not wanting to pay shit while you've got two PBR tallboys in your hand is fucking ridiculous.
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I do know that it would help if people actually valued music AT ALL; this not wanting to pay shit while you've got two PBR tallboys in your hand is fucking ridiculous.
Line em up against a wall and shoot em
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I like that the indie torrents and scion thread are the top threads in the music shit section right now
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scion doing this is so bizzare str8 up
It is. Whoever does there books must be retarded. They paid my friends $2000 twice on accident and haven't even noticed. They were not a band either. Also the DigitalLeather/Colafreaks show here was ridiculous. There was hardly anyone there at all as it hadn't been promoted very well and was last minute. Yet they put everyone up at the Omni for a 4 days, flew them down here and the rest of the shit going along with them entails.
And $800 to another friend to flyer for a scion show. He took two pictures at his house and threw the flyers away and got paid nigga's.
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Wrong!
What he did was he sold MY fucking "authenticity".
Jesus Christ, these are gold. They're like dialogue from some awful punk Spinal Tap. Please more!
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"Isn't Bruce the one who was just bitching about people coming to him for a record "too late?""
i'm the distro, i try to bring them into the states as cheap as possible, which in most cases is considerably cheaper then buying them from australia, the decision on numbers is not up to me but the labels, which are small and trying to figure out how many copies they can sell from a band that for the most part, no one has heard outside of australia.
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Wrong!
What he did was he sold MY fucking "authenticity". You don't even wanna know everything I had to do to earn that! He didn't have any to begin with, so he sold something that didn't belong to him in the first place. I don't know about you, but my friends and I don't dig it when people steal from us. We deal with thieves in unkind ways. Duh.
Why not steal from people that are trying to steal from you? That was my point.
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But it's not stealing from them. They're not stealing anything. That's the point. You may think punk rock is worthless and can be sold to any suit with a couple grand in cash, but I don't feel that way. I don't believe that the people who think that punk rock is worth as little as these people are offering don't really have any right to be selling it in the first place, because it doesn't belong to them.
Wrong!
What he did was he sold MY fucking "authenticity".
Jesus Christ, these are gold. They're like dialogue from some awful punk Spinal Tap. Please more!
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks I'm hilarious!
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(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/music/Images/malcolmmcclaren.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y263/mrwrong1969/Kim-Fowley-girls.jpg)
(http://www.seriouseats.com/images/videos-rollingstonesricekrispies.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t247/esr22/SteelReserveJingles.jpg)
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I believe in artistic integrity, I don't think one's creation is just something that is expendable and should just be offered up for some cash and trinkets. But what really belongs to you? Nothing except for your own music...that's it. Any idea of a person owning "punk rock" or whatever musical genre/scene seems pretty megalomanical. I understand building a musical community(booking shows etc), trying to create a culture of creativity without interference from greedy businessmen or whoever. I've done it myself throughout my life. Something about that idea seems off to me.
It's all subjective in the end anyway....I just don't see it all as black and white...I see some weird subversive value in ripping off some business/corporation that thinks it's going to use what one has created to sell product but in the end isn't actually getting anything at all. It's probably best to just avoid that altogether.
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Glad yr back k.
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I did one of these 7"s.
Skip the middle man and go straight to Satan.
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Nobody is saying that these people can't work with corporations. But if they're gonna do that, they shouldn't be surprised by the consequences of their actions. They're coming from or are trying to appeal to a community that doesn't think highly of that kinda behavior. Don't write anonymous letters to MRR whining about you had no other choice. MRR also has a policy about no sexist/racist music coverage but GG Allin still made it in there.
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5:25 PM
You have just been sent a personal message by inotlistening on terminal-boredom.com.
IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.
The message they sent you was:
gimme some scion money!
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Did anyone actually complain about this policy and not getting MRR or similar coverage? Particularly anyone in any of these bands? Did I miss that?
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Did anyone actually complain about this policy and not getting MRR or similar coverage? Particularly anyone in any of these bands? Did I miss that?
No, they were just writing anonymous letters whining about how hard life was for them on tour, so you shouldn't judge them for taking Scion money to make it a little easier.
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5:25 PM
You have just been sent a personal message by inotlistening on terminal-boredom.com.
IMPORTANT: Remember, this is just a notification. Please do not reply to this email.
The message they sent you was:
gimme some scion money!
Hah! Harry is the best
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I've been to six record stores in two cities since I lasted posted here and you people are still talking about this shit. And how did I get around? In a Scion!
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MRR also has a policy about no sexist/racist music coverage but GG Allin still made it in there.
This is not true, at least in the review department.
EDIT: Sorry, lemme clarify. Yes, shit-ton about GG in the MRR over the years. But there's not out-right policy about banning racist/sexist bands from the review section. Interviews and advertising by racist/sexist/nationalist bands is not allowed. If they send their record in and it sounds like punk rock, it'll be reviewed...and (with an incredibly high degree of certainty) ripped to fucking shreds.
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I thought I remembered seeing a review of Hated in there. My mistake.
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Just edited my shit...I misunderstood you. RIGHT: there is no ban on racist/sexist shit in the review section.
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APOLOGIZE MITCH!
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I'm sorry for EVERYTHING.
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I thought K. was joking in his posts. is he/she not? If not, who is this person that invented the punx?
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Wait, I thought there was a ban on racist and sexist stuff? Anyways it seems all I get to review is crappy garage rock because Layla knows I'm friends with Mitch
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(http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2565/lsokreviewswz9.jpg)
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How does everyone feel about all the old polish hc records being recorded and produced in a government owned place?
Or about a beer company sponsoring Chaos?
Or how I and everyone else buys guitar strings at guitar center because everyone else is more expensive?
In reality this has to be the worst marketing campain ever. Seriously who the fuck would buy a scion because the Oblivans did a split or they put on some shows. A Real American would buy a Honda anyway...or a BMW.
If I had a functioning band I would happily do this Scion thing if offered ( and I would most likely spend part of the money making free fuck scion shirts for kicks to hand out). You cant buy my integrity because its not for sale and I will just lie to you anyway. I will burn you the first chance I can justify it. To me it is the same as my job paying me $14 to talk shit while I sit on a crate in an alley for 8 hrs.
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I've been to six record stores in two cities since I lasted posted here
How Soriano measures increments of time.
I'd like to hear a better way to mark time.
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I've been to six record stores in two cities since I lasted posted here
How Soriano measures increments of time.
I'd like to hear a better way to mark time.
How many times he filled up his Scion?
How many times he screamed at Mitch on this forum?
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WHO IS THE BIGGEST BABY IN THIS THREAD?//// WHO CARES ABOUT SCION GARAGE ROCK, GARAGE ROCK STINKS HEAVY METAL STINKS "SPLIT 7'S" STINK IT ALL STINKS. A child could understand the difference between buying a Budweiser and having Scion put out your bands record or putting their logo on a flyer, a baby could cry his way into two grand if he wanted to, I have never bartered for groceries and likely never will, there are more options in life than working for an insurance company and putting out your record on Hondas boutique 7" label, all the covers for these records are fucking goofy looking, no one has read MRR since blah blah blah, 20,000 people downloaded SS Records Release "EL JESUS DE MAJICO" and only Chris Lutzko bought the 7" (ebay 200$) I threw away the flyers that I last-minute taped the Scion logo too and anyways I didn't even give away the free stuff they gave me WHO CARES ALL THESE BANDS FUCKING STINK ALL THESE SHOWS WERE PROBABLY AWFUL DUMB IDIOTS DOWNLOAD CRUMMY RECORDS AND THE WORLD STILL TURNS
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YOU FUCKEN AMERICANS! TRY BEING PUNK AND
AUSTRALIAN FROM QUEENSLAND.
WONDERFULS 7" AVAILABLE NOW. FIRST NGL VINYL RELEASE. COST A LOT OF MONEY TO MAKE.
$$$
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Been well down this blue highway eons ago (http://www.bopsecrets.org/images/sos.pdf):
1
In societies dominated by modern conditions of production, life is presented as an immense accumulation of spectacles. Everything that was directly lived has receded into a representation.
2
The images detached from every aspect of life merge into a common stream in which the unity of that life can no longer be recovered. Fragmented views of reality regroup themselves into a new unity as a separate pseudoworld that can only be looked at. The specialization of images of the world evolves into a world of autonomized images where even the deceivers are deceived. The spectacle is a concrete inversion of life, an autonomous movement of the nonliving.
3
The spectacle presents itself simultaneously as society itself, as a part of society, and as a means of unification. As a part of society, it is the focal point of all vision and all consciousness. But due to the very fact that this sector is separate, it is in reality the domain of delusion and false consciousness: the unification it achieves is nothing but an official language of universal separation.
4
The spectacle is not a collection of images; it is a social relation between people that is mediated by images.
5
The spectacle cannot be understood as a mere visual excess produced by mass-media technologies. It is a worldview that has actually been materialized, a view of a world that has become objective.
6
Understood in its totality, the spectacle is both the result and the project of the dominant mode of production. It is not a mere decoration added to the real world. It is the very heart of this real society's unreality. In all of its particular manifestations - news, propaganda, advertising, entertainment - the spectacle represents the dominant model of life. It is the omnipresent affirmation of the choices that have already been made in the sphere of production and in the consumption implied by that production. In both form and content the spectacle serves as a total justification of the conditions and goals of the existing system. The spectacle also represents the constant presence of this justification since it monopolizes the majority of the time spent outside the production process.
7
Separation is itself an integral part of the unity of this world, of a global social practice split into reality and image. The social practice confronted by an autonomous spectacle is at the same time the real totality which contains that spectacle. But the split within this totality mutilates it to the point that the spectacle seems to be its goal. The language of the spectacle consists of signs of the dominant system of production - signs which are at the same time the ultimate end-products of that system.
8
The spectacle cannot be abstractly contrasted to concrete social activity. Each side of such a duality is itself divided. The spectacle that falsifies reality is nevertheless a real product of that reality. Conversely, real life is materially invaded by the contemplation of the spectacle, and ends up absorbing it and aligning itself with it. Objective reality is present on both sides. Each of these seemingly fixed concepts has no other basis than its transformation into its opposite: reality emerges within the spectacle, and the spectacle is real. This reciprocal alienation is the essence and support of the existing society.
9
In a world that is really upside down, the true is a moment of the false.
10
The concept of "the spectacle" interrelates and explains a wide range of seemingly unconnected phenomena. The apparent diversities and contrasts of these phenomena stem from the social organization of appearances, whose essential nature must itself be recognized. Considered in its own terms, the spectacle is an affirmation of appearances and an identification of all human social life with appearances. But a critique that grasps the spectacle's essential character reveals it to be a visible negation of life - a negation that has taken on a visible form.
(in short, get nuggered and crank some Icon Gallery)
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How does everyone feel about all the old polish hc records being recorded and produced in a government owned place?
I think it's lame, personally. I'd need to know a little more specific info about what you're talking about though, because technically everything and anything is owned by any communist gov't, so even a DIY facility the gov't doesn't know about could technically be called a "government owned" place. It also seems strange to me considering what I do know about Polish punk that the gov't would be knowingly sponsoring band's recordings. Sounds to me like a misunderstanding on the part of whoever passed this information along to you.
Also, I really find little more obnoxious than people who have to make a joke out of EVERYTHING. There are people that have posted in this thread, including friends of mine who make it their life's work to not take a stand on anything, because they think it's somehow lame, or uncool. I agree that you need to be able to laugh at yourself, especially when you're arguing about something straight out of the MRR letter's section, but really if you seriously don't care about any of this shit, and are so above it, then why are you here? Why do you read or write for MRR? Why go to shows?
I think it's just a cowardly approach to life and I put it on the same level as writing/posting shit anonymously.
Shit reminds me of Beavis and Butthead or something "huh huh huh - that dude cares."
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I think the not caring thing of the 00s was a backlash from the 90s. It's 2011, it's safe to care again.
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And by saying it's safe to care I do not mean to start doing crazy PC BCO shit I saw first hand in the 90s. Like creating long blacklists based on rumors and hearsay of people who are banned from going to shows/festivals. Or making bands turn in lyric sheets so they can pass the piss test before playing.
I'm talking about the fact that each one of us is getting fucked in the ass daily by the people who have money / power and we don't want to deal with these people anymore.
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people who listen to las vegas go go who put out garage records talking about stuff not being PUNK
WHAT
weird records from the 60s and new fucked up rock'n'roll is my version of punk, asswipe. i never even put out a garage record. tunnel of love? i guess. who the fuck are you anyway?
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I listen to techno, like going to raves and dancing at goth clubs and I can still tell you what is or isn't punk.
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I listen to techno, like going to raves and dancing at goth clubs and I can still tell you what is or isn't punk.
yes.
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Punk is obviously still going strong if this debate can last for 28 pages.
In 2011.
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people who listen to las vegas go go who put out garage records talking about stuff not being PUNK
WHAT
even funnier: TIM WARREN. NOT PUNK.
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Woah, is this supposed to be directed at me because I made a Soriano joke in this thread?
I'm so sick and tired of your inability to take punk seriously, Victor, and I ain't gonna take it anymore!
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some dipshit just told me i'm not punk and i'm taking it very seriously.
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seems like to me the easiest solution would be to start a punk car company. then everybody's happy!
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seems like to me the easiest solution would be to start a punk car company. then everybody's happy!
http://www.lincvolt.com/ (http://www.lincvolt.com/)
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IT's only a matter of time before the corporate castles built on sand start crumbling down around themselves.
Sink or swim, the boat is goin DOWN
MORE DEBORD, LESS SCION!
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Oh no Kev, is your punk castle crumbling all around you?
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Yep, direct reference to my earlier statement, which was in jest.
How about this one:
"The self-emancipation of our time is an emancipation from the material bases of inverted truth.
This "historic mission of establishing truth in the world" can be carried out neither by the
isolated individual nor by atomized and manipulated masses, but only and always by the class
that is able to dissolve all classes by reducing all power to the de-alienating form of realized
democracy to councils in which practical theory verifies itself and surveys its own actions.
This is possible only when individuals are directly linked to universal history and dialogue
arms itself to impose its own conditions." - Guy Debord
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How does everyone feel about all the old polish hc records being recorded and produced in a government owned place?
I think it's lame, personally. I'd need to know a little more specific info about what you're talking about though, because technically everything and anything is owned by any communist gov't, so even a DIY facility the gov't doesn't know about could technically be called a "government owned" place. It also seems strange to me considering what I do know about Polish punk that the gov't would be knowingly sponsoring band's recordings. Sounds to me like a misunderstanding on the part of whoever passed this information along to you.
Definitely not a misunderstanding, this is common knowledge. Pretty much every early Polish hc release was on the Tonpress label which was owned/operated/manufactured by the Polish government. You'll notice some of the records even have the swears bleeped out.
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Is Dan Melchior exempt if he did it for the money to help his sick wife? That's some punk fucking shit there willing to give the middle finger to your own artistic establishment. And fuck MRR straight up the ass if they refuse to review his records now. Go fuck yourself you self righteous pussies.
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Definitely not a misunderstanding, this is common knowledge. Pretty much every early Polish hc release was on the Tonpress label which was owned/operated/manufactured by the Polish government. You'll notice some of the records even have the swears bleeped out.
I've heard of this before, but I guess you mean pretty much every early VINYL release, because I know for a fact there were punk bands in Poland who were in direct defiance of their gov't and experienced persecution as a result.
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Dan Melchior's sick wife should be getting the health treatment she deserves for affordable prices and it's fucked up that she isn't. If everyone would stand-up and start caring about this kind of shit people wouldn't need to take dirty/culture raping money in order to survive. Very fucked up and sad that our health care system sits back and watches poor people get sick and denies them the proper treatment.
And to be clear, I don't give a shit about what is "punk" or not. I just wish more people would educate themselves and live with integrity. I wish people could see that for many of us, what we think we know is just an illusion, to keep us quiet so that we don't lose the little that we do have. It's the lottery syndrome. I may be rich someday so I don't want to rock the boat.
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To be clear: if I was dying I would probably take Scion's money too. Wouldn't feel good about it but I value my life, ya know.
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It's times like this I am really glad that I am a straight up wigger.
(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/76348_1555962137815_1198072223_31267810_197742_n.jpg)
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Vinnie, can be bought or sold, just like a pack of Newports. Or chocolate milk.
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After doing some research I've found that even bands that later recorded for Tonpress like Kryzuz had released records outside of the country, proving to themselves and others that they could release music independently of the state's label/system. So, yeah, I'd say it's easy for Americans to say "you should just DIY it" but there are examples across Eastern Europe that back up that kind of statement.
I like "mainstream" Soviet rock like Kino, Republika etc... too, but I don't put them in the same category as bands like GrOb or VHK.
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people who listen to las vegas go go who put out garage records talking about stuff not being PUNK
WHAT
even funnier: TIM WARREN. NOT PUNK.
that was a good morning laugh for me, thanks!
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To be clear: if I was dying I would probably take Scion's money too. Wouldn't feel good about it but I value my life, ya know.
thats when your values are truly tested, its easy to have integrity when its easy and affordable. i also would sell out for a pack of newports or half gallon of chocolate milk.
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I just drove from San Francisco to Sacramento, had a nice sandwich and a beer and am now in my studio AND you folks are still talking about this shit. And I got to Sacramento in a Scion.
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Do you have one of those electric pocket-pussies that are powered by the car cigg lighter?
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Do have one of those electric pocket-pussies that are powered by the car cigg lighter?
I dunno: Are you electric?
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Do have one of those electric pocket-pussies that are powered by the car cigg lighter?
All Scions come equipped with those. They're gonna move from the garage-rock marketing angle to the sex-toy marketing angle. Wise choice.
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(http://www.caffeine-fueled.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/vampire.jpg)
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(http://www.caffeine-fueled.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/vampire.jpg)
woah yes. would use
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That looks like a man's mouth.
Just sayin.
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I listen to techno, like going to raves and dancing at goth clubs and I can still tell you what is or isn't punk.
FOR YOU...that's the main thing I think everyone's missing
I GOTTA LIVE BY MY RULES
NOT GONNA LISTEN TO THOSE FOOLS
other punk commandments
DENY EVERYTHING
WHAT WE DO IS SECRET
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i love debord, spectacles, whatever. but i think it's kind of irrelevant in this context. it's fine to have your own personal set of values, it's fine to be anti-commercialism, anti-scion, etc. that's totally cool. i admire bands that do that, i admire labels that do that. i think it's pretty fucking dumb, though, to spend days getting mad on the internet because some band decided they would work with scion. it seems like the whole notion of 'sellout' or authenticity is just an Othering term that punks use to feel better about themselves. the 'real' vs 'poseur' dichotomy seems like a series of lines drawn in the sand by tons of different people, which leads me to believe it's total bullshit. the most punk thing to do, it seems to me, is just to do whatever you want all the time. getting mad about this kind of shit is just as dumb as getting mad at kids who shop at hot topic and listen to pop-punk
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(http://fuckyeahnouns.com/images/Punk+sellout)
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What I never got was that with these bands that make the decision to shill, why do none of them ever shill for something good? There's the argument that "only the big corporations have the ad money" for this type of thing, but that's stupid. From most reports, these bands aren't getting all that much cash & certainly there'd be some local/regional business that'd be able to put together something similar.
The main difference would be is that the band would have to go out & seek & pitch to the business themselves, as opposed to some suit coming up to them and flashing a suitcase full of money. Still though, it doesn't seem like it'd be so hard.
Go to some small co-op chain that regularly puts ads in the paper. For 300 bucks they could purchase a hundred digital download cards of your band that would have a decent coupon for their store on the back. The band would then give out those download cards at their show. And if less than 50%(or whatever) of the coupons were used at the store then the band & the store would cease to do business with one another. If the coupons were used though, the process would be repeated & the band would continue to get chunks of change from the store on the reg.
I dunno if anybody's read Chris Anderson's book Free but it argues pretty convincingly that until a better option comes along (like some type of Netflix for music that actually catches on) advertising & sponsorship is something that is going to have a presence.
Anyway, for the time being, as I think I've said in one of these innumerable threads about this topic, I'm all for higher door charges at shows* & bands getting a cut of the bar money. As for labels? They should have pledge drives. Think about it, you'd give fifty bucks for an SSR tote bag.
*For cheap skates at house shows, there should be some type of tiered pricing system. Something like: 7 bucks to get into the show; 10 bucks to get into the show & get a voucher worth five bucks of merch at that show; OR for the cheap skates- 5 bucks AND five beers to get in.
the shilling thing seems like something big 'non-good' businesses are more inclined to seek out; the small businesses you're talking about don't really have much to gain from using bands like Scion does. yes, the whole branding thing is bullshit, but it doesn't really matter if a local food co-op is associated with 'alternative youth culture' or whatever. Scion's gonna pay to have their brand associated with cool edgy cultural products because they're making cars, which at the end of the day are more or less interchangable with all the other cars out there. i'm just not sure what the difference is between a band offering up its music explicitly for licensing, and a company offering a deal to a band, who has the power to accept or reject it.
i agree with everything else you've said, though, and i really like your idea for tiered pricing...might be coming up with something like that for my next show; my band is as broke as all of our equipment is.
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Those are legitimately the gayest and dumbest ideas I have ever heard of in my life and if I ever hear of anyone partnering with a LOCAL CO OP FOR COUPON DOWNLOAD CARDS or some fuckin label doing a PLEDGE DRIVE...sheesh...but that's grounds for an unprecedented level of clowning and also you are a moron. FIFTY DOLLAR SS TOTE BAG TIERED PRICING AT SOME SHITTY MIDWESTERN POP PUNK SHOW, you're like a new kind of retard
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tiered house show pricing
a good way to end up with no one at your show and for any touring band to never come back
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i love debord, spectacles, whatever. but i think it's kind of irrelevant in this context. it's fine to have your own personal set of values, it's fine to be anti-commercialism, anti-scion, etc. that's totally cool. i admire bands that do that, i admire labels that do that. i think it's pretty fucking dumb, though, to spend days getting mad on the internet because some band decided they would work with scion. it seems like the whole notion of 'sellout' or authenticity is just an Othering term that punks use to feel better about themselves. the 'real' vs 'poseur' dichotomy seems like a series of lines drawn in the sand by tons of different people, which leads me to believe it's total bullshit. the most punk thing to do, it seems to me, is just to do whatever you want all the time. getting mad about this kind of shit is just as dumb as getting mad at kids who shop at hot topic and listen to pop-punk
yeah but those sellouts are ruining the community that i helped create. it's so unfair and wrong on some many levels.
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We've had sliding scales at warehouse shows in Brooklyn before and it worked. Of course there is tons of kids with money there. Shows in NYC are more expensive generally than in the midwest as well.
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well ive been to sliding scale shows but its usually like "hey, pay between $5-7" or 5-8 or something. dont mind that at all but thats also different. i THINK
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I'm surprised Camel didn't get in on this.
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Why are my post's being deleted?
and
Why hasn't this been moved to pop-punk?
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Those are legitimately the gayest and dumbest ideas I have ever heard of in my life and if I ever hear of anyone partnering with a LOCAL CO OP FOR COUPON DOWNLOAD CARDS or some fuckin label doing a PLEDGE DRIVE...sheesh...but that's grounds for an unprecedented level of clowning and also you are a moron. FIFTY DOLLAR SS TOTE BAG TIERED PRICING AT SOME SHITTY MIDWESTERN POP PUNK SHOW, you're like a new kind of retard
nah, he's the regular kind...
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You can't hide THE TRUTH!
Scion Subhumans
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/scionsubhumans.jpg)
Seriously though, did Steve or Scion complain? Where's my pix go? What's wrong with being sexy?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBjQPjivRiQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBjQPjivRiQ)
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think about it:
--some shit dumb corporation gives your band or your label some cash to appear on their line of 7"s or a commercial or a movie;
--said shit dumb corporation could spend it on whatever thievery they normally conduct, but instead, act retarded assuming that punk rock kids are actually gonna step out of a Tyvek gig and run right over to the dealership to lease a car;
--band or label gets to pay the light bills, maybe eat something other than a can a soup, maybe can get the van fixed to go on tour;
--majority of fans could care less, maybe the record sells maybe it doesn't--who cares as the band and or label got paid.
Here's the alternative:
--band or label works a soul crushing day job to raise some money for a record;
--maybe it sells, maybe it doesn't--even if it does, it raises enough net cash to maybe get an oil change and a long distance calling card, which will come in handy when the tour van is broken down in the middle of nowhere Nebraska, and someone needs to make a desperate call for cash by Western Union so the band can take the Greyhound home;
--upon arriving home, band finds the records still clogging up the closet, no time to fret though as the soul crushing day job starts again in the morning.
Yes, I can see why the 2nd option is better.
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You have just been sent a personal message by Mother on terminal-boredom.com.
The message they sent you was:
Dont post pictures of your junk or anyone else's for that matter.
Fer real? Since when is really a no nudity policy on termbo? And who wrote that ^? and did you log out of your other account to log in as mother to tell me that?
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damn Terminal BOredom crackdown, also when was there a picture of your dick (or someone elses "for that matter") in this thread??
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Dont post pictures of your junk or anyone else's for that matter.
unless ur a chick with a big butt
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i love debord, spectacles, whatever. but i think it's kind of irrelevant in this context. it's fine to have your own personal set of values, it's fine to be anti-commercialism, anti-scion, etc. that's totally cool. i admire bands that do that, i admire labels that do that. i think it's pretty fucking dumb, though, to spend days getting mad on the internet because some band decided they would work with scion. it seems like the whole notion of 'sellout' or authenticity is just an Othering term that punks use to feel better about themselves. the 'real' vs 'poseur' dichotomy seems like a series of lines drawn in the sand by tons of different people, which leads me to believe it's total bullshit. the most punk thing to do, it seems to me, is just to do whatever you want all the time. getting mad about this kind of shit is just as dumb as getting mad at kids who shop at hot topic and listen to pop-punk
I'm not mad. Just had too much coffee this morning and have been watching too many documentaries lately about revolution & political terrorism. I'm no more mad at these bands than I am at myself for living in a society where I allow myself to get screwed over daily and I don't do anything to stop it. There's no line in the sand. We're all victims and we're all part of the problem. Everyone is forced at times to compromise their values in order to survive. If you think that Debord was irrelevant to any of the things I was saying you must not realize that I was never commenting about whether something is "punk" or not. I changed the subject because I was tired of hearing about it. I thought it may be more fun to open a dialogue about how we can go about breaking free from (or destroying?) the corporate hand that "feeds" us. Or wait, maybe that is what punk is about to some?
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think about it:
--some shit dumb corporation gives your band or your label some cash to appear on their line of 7"s or a commercial or a movie;
--said shit dumb corporation could spend it on whatever thievery they normally conduct, but instead, act retarded assuming that punk rock kids are actually gonna step out of a Tyvek gig and run right over to the dealership to lease a car;
--band or label gets to pay the light bills, maybe eat something other than a can a soup, maybe can get the van fixed to go on tour;
--majority of fans could care less, maybe the record sells maybe it doesn't--who cares as the band and or label got paid.
Here's the alternative:
--band or label works a soul crushing day job to raise some money for a record;
--maybe it sells, maybe it doesn't--even if it does, it raises enough net cash to maybe get an oil change and a long distance calling card, which will come in handy when the tour van is broken down in the middle of nowhere Nebraska, and someone needs to make a desperate call for cash by Western Union so the band can take the Greyhound home;
--upon arriving home, band finds the records still clogging up the closet, no time to fret though as the soul crushing day job starts again in the morning.
Yes, I can see why the 2nd option is better.
Are these really the only two options?
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there was a really hot pic of a dick that was on here and i don't see it anymore
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(http://www.2dayblog.com/images/scion_dj_5-axis-04.jpg)
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Wish I could have been there.
You're welcome...
Debate: Integrity and Selling Out in 2010 - Part 1 - Scion Music(less) Music Conference
http://vimeo.com/18448140 (http://vimeo.com/18448140)
Panel: Artists As Businesses - Part 1 - Scion Music(less) Music Conference
http://vimeo.com/16784584 (http://vimeo.com/16784584)
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think about it:
--some shit dumb corporation gives your band or your label some cash to appear on their line of 7"s or a commercial or a movie;
--said shit dumb corporation could spend it on whatever thievery they normally conduct, but instead, act retarded assuming that punk rock kids are actually gonna step out of a Tyvek gig and run right over to the dealership to lease a car;
--band or label gets to pay the light bills, maybe eat something other than a can a soup, maybe can get the van fixed to go on tour;
--majority of fans could care less, maybe the record sells maybe it doesn't--who cares as the band and or label got paid.
Here's the alternative:
--band or label works a soul crushing day job to raise some money for a record;
--maybe it sells, maybe it doesn't--even if it does, it raises enough net cash to maybe get an oil change and a long distance calling card, which will come in handy when the tour van is broken down in the middle of nowhere Nebraska, and someone needs to make a desperate call for cash by Western Union so the band can take the Greyhound home;
--upon arriving home, band finds the records still clogging up the closet, no time to fret though as the soul crushing day job starts again in the morning.
Yes, I can see why the 2nd option is better.
Are these really the only two options?
not in my experience...
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also, we've all seen justins dick before, whats the problem?
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You have just been sent a personal message by Mother on terminal-boredom.com.
The message they sent you was:
Dont post pictures of your junk or anyone else's for that matter.
Fer real? Since when is really a no nudity policy on termbo? And who wrote that ^? and did you log out of your other account to log in as mother to tell me that?
Here is the nudity policy: We don't wanna have to put an age requirement thing for the site so no penises, no anuses, no vaginas, no fucking, etc. A butt cheek is a butt cheek. No one cares about that. It is a blanket policy, just as the "don't post share files" is a blanket policy. Besides this is a music message board. No one cares about your penis, especially when calling it a "salami" is just adding to an atmosphere of hype that made all of you cream over the Vivian Girls and WAVVES before it was not cool to do so anymore. If you don't like the nudity policy you are very much welcome to find your way over to VLV or BCO and post pictures of your penis. They could use a chuckle.
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Are balls OK?
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Are balls OK?
Any body part belonging to Mitch Cardwell can be displayed here.
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people who listen to las vegas go go who put out garage records talking about stuff not being PUNK
WHAT
weird records from the 60s and new fucked up rock'n'roll is my version of punk, asswipe. i never even put out a garage record. tunnel of love? i guess. who the fuck are you anyway?
las vegas go go at the same party with punk music.
it's true: i can't let it go.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/ledisquaire/DEPOTFLYERcopy-1.jpg)
that douche deleted his post. don't know why since i quoted it. it still exists. so yeah, i guess DO care, but it's more about my contempt for ignorance than anything else.
punk. it's all i have.
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Fer real? Since when is really a no nudity policy on termbo?
haha seriously. I guess moderators have never taken a peek at the fave jpegs thread?!?!
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What do you do when the money from the first option runs out and you've alienated yourself from the core of fans who supported you to begin with?
What people don't get is this ain't just about Scion. You see this same shit all the time now with bands hiring publicists and booking agents and shit. Trust me, I can understand the draw to utilize such services. All the shit that comes along with being in a band and putting out records sucks, it's a lot of hard work and it's stressful as well as time consuming. The reason why I choose the DIY route is because I like to have control of my work. I like to work with people I have something in common with, friends mostly. I like to play for a certain kind of crowd.
I did have an offer when I first moved to NYC to make a real nice chunk of change to license a couple songs to a Parisian fashion label who wanted to release a 7" of mine and give out free mp3 downloads with pairs of jeans. I was completely broke at the time. I had absolutely no instruments to make music with. I had nothing. I thought a lot about taking the money. I didn't say "fuck you, no" right away, but after thinking about it a lot, and asking for advice from people I respected (virtually the lot of whom incidentally all recommended I go for it, because I obviously needed the cash), but I did talk to one friend over there who told me a little bit about the dude who owned the company. He was a rich playboy whose parents are among the richest in Europe. He liked to buy into "hip" things to increase his own cultural capital. Like the rich kid that everyone knows who buys all the booze for the parties so he can hang around with the cool bad kids. That friend told me to just make sure that I got paid well if I was gonna work with this jagoff. I decided there wasn't enough money in the world this dude could pay me to use my music to give his product value.
What I did instead was sell some records and made a myspace post about my situation, about how I had no money and was looking for some for instruments and drugs. Fans of mine, who became good friends lent a helping hand and I got by. I'm sure if I had been pimping myself out to jean companies and car manufacturers that I wouldn't have as dedicated of fans as I do.
I get so sick of people saying shit like "Hmm, take the easy route, or the more difficult route? Well duh! Of course you take the easy route, ideals be damned!"
If you never shared these ideals in the first place, I wonder why you're posting on this board in the first place, or why you care if MRR covers this shit or not. I wonder why you care if people like me say that you're not fucking punk to begin with.
I mean, that's the one thing about punk, really. There is racist punks, sexist punks, PC punks, nihilstic punks, positive punks etc.... but the one thing that unites all of them is their DIY ethic.
And don't bring up shit like the Sex Pistols, because they were using corporate money to directly challenge the status quo. I don't see any of that from ANY of the bands being pimped by Scion.
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people who listen to las vegas go go who put out garage records talking about stuff not being PUNK
WHAT
weird records from the 60s and new fucked up rock'n'roll is my version of punk, asswipe. i never even put out a garage record. tunnel of love? i guess. who the fuck are you anyway?
las vegas go go at the same party with punk music.
it's true: i can't let it go.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b99/ledisquaire/DEPOTFLYERcopy-1.jpg)
that douche deleted his post. don't know why since i quoted it. it still exists. so yeah, i guess DO care, but it's more about my contempt for ignorance than anything else.
punk. it's all i have.
anybody who doesnt know bazooka joe rules is not punk.
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i dont have a problem with people taking money from anybody for their music as long as it doesnt affect the music itself, who cares who distributes it? not me.
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Also, I've seen plenty of vag in the big butts thread. It's not just cheeks over there!
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soriano is a homo and doesnt like to see penis because it gives him an uncomfortable raging hard on.
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POP PUNK.
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I'm just wondering where the section is on BCO where people post pics of their dicks. I can't find it.
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I'm just wondering where the section is on BCO where people post pics of their dicks. I can't find it.
It is the section entitled "O The Shame"
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I'm just wondering where the section is on BCO where people post pics of their dicks. I can't find it.
pretty sure it has to do with context. if the moderators want to see dick pictures they will go looking for them, seeing such matter out of context is what bothers them. in a big butt thread who doesnt expect to see some vag? or nudity in a jpeg thread? however, dick has no place in a "serious" music thread....
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I'm just wondering where the section is on BCO where people post pics of their dicks. I can't find it.
It is the section entitled "O The Shame"
Thanks man. Now at least the two of use have that bookmarked.
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i dont have a problem with people taking money from anybody for their music as long as it doesnt affect the music itself, who cares who distributes it? not me.
thats how i feel. but im not a punk, im a rock n rolla
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i dont have a problem with people taking money from anybody for their music as long as it doesnt affect the music itself, who cares who distributes it? not me.
same stance here, although i'd like to add how fucking ugly and stinky corporate logos are on otherwise cool records. and the music usually does suffer, too. funny though, the muffs started on reprise, then went to indy lables for subsequent releases but kept making the same record over and over again. how come they're the only band that got it right? but anyway, that kinda sponsorship ain't for me, but it doesn't make me think any less of human eye. they're still, and will always be, godhead to me.
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You have just been sent a personal message by Mother on terminal-boredom.com.
The message they sent you was:
Dont post pictures of your junk or anyone else's for that matter.
Fer real? Since when is really a no nudity policy on termbo? And who wrote that ^? and did you log out of your other account to log in as mother to tell me that?
Here is the nudity policy: We don't wanna have to put an age requirement thing for the site so no penises, no anuses, no vaginas, no fucking, etc. A butt cheek is a butt cheek. No one cares about that. It is a blanket policy, just as the "don't post share files" is a blanket policy. Besides this is a music message board. No one cares about your penis, especially when calling it a "salami" is just adding to an atmosphere of hype that made all of you cream over the Vivian Girls and WAVVES before it was not cool to do so anymore. If you don't like the nudity policy you are very much welcome to find your way over to VLV or BCO and post pictures of your penis. They could use a chuckle.
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/joneshiro/crossing.jpg?t=1261172984)
Is the size of the penis important?
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i used nobunny to sell my party.
LEAVE IT TO BEAVER!
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Maltodextrin 07:14:39 PM Reporting a topic to a moderator.
Find another penis pic?
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Guest 07:24:53 PM Registering for an account on the forum. User name: Scion
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Scion 07:20:05 PM Viewing the topic HYPNAGOGIC POP.
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wordswordswords
I'm not mad. Just had too much coffee this morning and have been watching too many documentaries lately about revolution & political terrorism. I'm no more mad at these bands than I am at myself for living in a society where I allow myself to get screwed over daily and I don't do anything to stop it. There's no line in the sand. We're all victims and we're all part of the problem. Everyone is forced at times to compromise their values in order to survive. If you think that Debord was irrelevant to any of the things I was saying you must not realize that I was never commenting about whether something is "punk" or not. I changed the subject because I was tired of hearing about it. I thought it may be more fun to open a dialogue about how we can go about breaking free from (or destroying?) the corporate hand that "feeds" us. Or wait, maybe that is what punk is about to some?
i feel like debord would be in favor of taking the deal and then making a 7" consisting solely of the band farting into the mike for 5 minutes. if you want to find ways to fight back, then i still think taking a corporate buck isn't necessarily bad. you take the deal and then donate the money to a progressive org if you want. i totally agree with your starting point; it's unfortunate that we put effort into making art that's co-opted and whored out to sell cars, but a punk's gotta eat.
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For the record. The offending post was a picture of my flaccid penis resting on a Scion magazine along with these...
________________________ ________________________ _
I know that if you take a few pics... they give you money.
SCION STEVE
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/scionsteve.jpg)
SCION JOINT
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/scionweed.jpg)
SCION SALUTE
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/scionsalute.jpg)
[Insert dick pic/scion salami joke here]
I guess I shoulda called it...
GAY SAUSAGE
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(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-eAPxthREYU/TF7Bf9dDIZI/AAAAAAAAACo/2tcaPJ6Vr1g/s1600/wbcsigns2.jpg)
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4cg0k-FpCOs/TYx4OARDsMI/AAAAAAAABAA/Eb0ZnoizEMM/s1600/Brainworksslow%25238_extrait.jpg)
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4cg0k-FpCOs/TYx4OARDsMI/AAAAAAAABAA/Eb0ZnoizEMM/s1600/Brainworksslow%25238_extrait.jpg)
HA HA! You made that?
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I think the not caring thing of the 00s was a backlash from the 90s. It's 2011, it's safe to care again.
In light of everyone coming out as huge Faith No More fans it is safe to say that in 2011 Termbo cares a lot.
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4cg0k-FpCOs/TYx4OARDsMI/AAAAAAAABAA/Eb0ZnoizEMM/s1600/Brainworksslow%25238_extrait.jpg)
HA HA! You made that?
Yeah it's part of a bigger (one page) comic all on the same "topic".
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(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4cg0k-FpCOs/TYx4OARDsMI/AAAAAAAABAA/Eb0ZnoizEMM/s1600/Brainworksslow%25238_extrait.jpg)
HA HA! You made that?
Yeah it's part of a bigger (one page) comic all on the same "topic".
Would love to read the entire comic!
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To be clear: if I was dying I would probably take Scion's money too. Wouldn't feel good about it but I value my life, ya know.
thats when your values are truly tested, its easy to have integrity when its easy and affordable. i also would sell out for a pack of newports or half gallon of chocolate milk.
The thing is, I probably will end up dying by refusing to take part in the system. I've been lied to and stolen from way too many times by they health insurance industry / medical industry. Now I'm refusing to play their game, and if I end up dying from it, so be it.
We pay a large chunk of change each month for me and my husband's coverage. I don't expect everything to be covered but I also didn't expect to be consistently LIED TO about what was covered.
A couple examples: I have asthma and it was strongly suggested that I get a pulmonary function test. I found an in-network pulmonologist and made an appointment. I called my insurance and they assured me that it was covered 100% other than a $35 copay. Come to find out, due to a weird rule that was never mentioned to me, because the pulmonologist was working out of a hospital rather than an off-site office that the test would actually be 0% covered to the price of $5,000+.
Another example: My husband and I decide to do a rehab program because my insurance promised me that the treatment was 100% covered, that we would each just have to pay a $25 copay. After finishing the 5-week treatment program we get a bill explaining that we owed a copay for each session rather than treatment as a whole. This is not what was explained to me and we probably wouldn't have done it if we knew that was the case. Another lie that cost us over a $1,000 (of copays so it doesn't even count towards our deductable.)
I probably have at least 5 other examples of being lied to by the medical/insurance industry. When someone lies to you about what something costs and then forces you to pay that is STEALING from you.
The only reason I bring this up is because someone brought up the fact that it wasn't wrong for Dan Melchior to take the money from Scion. I can understand that point, but what's more important than that, he also has a community of fans/friends who care deeply about him and his wife's well being. Our pockets may not be as deep as Scion's but I can promise you we are a heck of a lot more loyal than they would ever be.
But yeah, no more insurance for me. Not only are they liars and thieves, but it doesn't really help anything. The Melchior's have insurance but it don't cover shit. I have insurance and spent a few days in the hospital and now owe thousands for that. So I can't even imagine the cost of cancer. If something tragic were to happen to me or my husband, our only choice would be to accept that it's our time and die or ask for help from our friends, family and the community we are a part of. Community is much more reliable, dependable, and loyal than corporations.
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Mommy, Mommy, Mommy look at this thread
I was trying to read it
and someone showed their dick head
I want to argue bout what's "PUNK"
not have to look at some dude's junk
Mommy I don't wanna see that junk
y'all are a bunch of cop callers
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BRING BACK BUSTED'S BOLOGNA!
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Mommy, Mommy, Mommy look at this thread
I was trying to read it
and someone showed their dick head
I want to argue bout what's "PUNK"
not have to look at some dude's junk
Mommy I don't wanna see that junk
y'all are a bunch of cop callers
A+
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http://sxsw.com/sponsors
Wouldn't playing this festival disqualify almost everybody?
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I've never been to SXSW and plan to keep it that way. Looks god awful. I may be wrong but was SXSW ever even considered a punk festival? To me it always seemed like somewhere that indie bands play in an attempt to "make it".
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Not that I don't think good bands have played there. Just wouldn't be somewhere I'd like to see em.
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http://sxsw.com/sponsors
Wouldn't playing this festival disqualify almost everybody?
Anyone know what MRR's stance on this would be? It's an interesting point.
From what I read earlier it seems like they focus more on what label releases your record rather than a sponsor of shows. And then if you do include show sponsorship where do you draw the line? At one time I worked for the Museum of Modern Art and they would sometimes have small bands play their parties. MOMA gets tons of sponsorship from huge corporations. So I guess art museums are out too.
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If by "disqualify" you mean being ineligable for review by MRR, then NO. There's no policy about bands playing corporate-sponsored shows. Should there be? I dunno. I certainly wouldn't wanna be the shitworker keeping tabs on tour dates though...fuck. That would be awful.
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Obviously someone in the UK can confrim or deny this, but my understanding is that the overwelming majority of UK hardcore shows are sponsored and even booked by this Scion/Vice campaign. This campaign reaches past "garage" and whatever one-off free shows and festivals Scion/Vice sets up here in the US.
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Obviously someone in the UK can confrim or deny this, but my understanding is that the overwelming majority of UK hardcore shows are sponsored and even booked by this Scion/Vice campaign. This campaign reaches past "garage" and whatever one-off free shows and festivals Scion/Vice sets up here in the US.
What UK hardcore bands are there even these days? When I was there, the only "hardcore" band I heard about was Gallows, who were on the cover of NME and appeared to be mainstream darlings. Not that I have a problem with that.
The UK is really weird. I think because there it's so small, it's much easier for bands to break into the mainstream there then it is in other places, kinda like what's happened with ESCR in Australia.
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For these UK hardcore shows, I was speaking mainly about touring HC bands from outside the UK. Like if Government Warning were to tour the UK, their options would be Vice/Scion sponsored shows OR Paco setting something up for them.
Obviously there is always an alternative...but with that often comes a lot more work and a bumpier, perhaps "less accommodating" ride.
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For these UK hardcore shows, I was speaking mainly about touring HC bands from outside the UK. Like if Government Warning were to tour the UK, their options would be Vice/Scion sponsored shows OR Paco setting something up for them.
Obviously there is always an alternative...but with that often comes a lot more work and a bumpier, perhaps "less accommodating" ride.
Yeah, touring is difficult. These people should try setting up a nearly three month DIY tour all on their own through Eastern Europe/Russia. It's not easy. It's expensive. Stressful. I don't have three other members to help me out with the work either.
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I just rsvped to a Scion show. Reigning sound and some other stupid band.
I can't wait to see Greg's turkey gobbler flap around.
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i've never been to any sponsored punk shows in the UK! maybe they happen, i've never heard of them.
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Well there ya go...so there's boogie-man tall tales being told about this shit too then.
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having just played SXSW for the first time this year I was less then impressed and if those sponsorships are real I saw none of it going towards my band or even me as just the grunt in the street getting a free miller lite. I won't be back.
As for this other shit I know nothing of the money deals behind a band playing a Scion fest or releasing a Scion record but if it works in the bands favor bully for them. Whether it's on DooWakkaDoo records or Brawny Towels records or Fred Phelps records I really could not care less as long as it rocks.
and what's the matter with Paco booking your show, ya racist?
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if they're shady fucks and rip people off than they should get exposed...unfortunately that does not happen enough. Remembrances of a story Nobunny told me about some Vice person who took most of the money from a NYC Nobunny appearance a couple years ago in typical bullshit promoter fashion.
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(http://www.celebritynewsbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/mick_jagger_lead_narrowweb__300x4310.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZBmhEMFdl0
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if they're shady fucks and rip people off than they should get exposed
The majority of large corporations are shady fucks who rip people off, because it's nearly impossible to become a successful corporation without doing so. Just like it's nearly impossible to become a hugely successful music artist, who is actually good, without compromising your art. The few who can do it are known as the greats for a reason.
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If I post a picture of my balls, does this get moved out of Pop-Punk?
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It goes to Demos
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Them shits dropped a long time ago though.
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Remembrances of a story Nobunny told me about some Vice person who took most of the money from a NYC Nobunny appearance a couple years ago in typical bullshit promoter fashion.
Huh wha?
Don't think so.
if they're shady fucks and rip people off than they should get exposed...unfortunately that does not happen enough.
I agree. Scion has been fine by me. They pay on time and generally do what they say they are going to do.
And while I didn't have a problem with Vice there is one a brewing that I'm gonna have to take the interwebs if they don't fix soon. Matador too.
Fool me once...
Play with fire...
etc...
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PM from Harry:
gonna make a SCION logo'd back for Desperate Living test! Thus ruining all your MRR dreams!!
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Remembrances of a story Nobunny told me about some Vice person who took most of the money from a NYC Nobunny appearance a couple years ago in typical bullshit promoter fashion.
Huh wha?
Don't think so.
Oh wait. I actually know what yr talkin about. It wasn't a VICE guy. He worked for HEEB.
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Worked w/ Vice once to try to help out a friends band who was in town and in a jam for a show. They waited forever to get paid. After countless emails, threats, etc they finally got paid like a year later. Then Vice realized they had accidentally over paid and asked for half the money back. Yeah right!
And let's never forget the year that VICE RUINED EASTER FOR MIKE SNIPER!!!!
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if they're shady fucks and rip people off than they should get exposed
The majority of large corporations are shady fucks who rip people off, because it's nearly impossible to become a successful corporation without doing so. Just like it's nearly impossible to become a hugely successful music artist, who is actually good, without compromising your art. The few who can do it are known as the greats for a reason.
this is laughable in the context of this discussion because if we were typing about some large corporation that was coming in and RIPPING OFF THE SCENE, MAN!!!!!!!!!!! we wouldn't be having this discussion cause what bands would still be participating?
if you wish to continue having some naive conversation about some imaginary world where punk ideals trump the day to day reality of paying bills and slogging thru this shit world and no bands should ever do anything that is counter to the MRR handbook go right ahead but I won't be joining you
won't even comment on your "music artist" and "compromising your art" nonsense...i like rock and roll...fuck art
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Remembrances of a story Nobunny told me about some Vice person who took most of the money from a NYC Nobunny appearance a couple years ago in typical bullshit promoter fashion.
Huh wha?
Don't think so.
Oh wait. I actually know what yr talkin about. It wasn't a VICE guy. He worked for HEEB.
have you learned nothing from Mel Gibson, JHogg?
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this is laughable in the context of this discussion because if we were typing about some large corporation that was coming in and RIPPING OFF THE SCENE, MAN!!!!!!!!!!! we wouldn't be having this discussion cause what bands would still be participating?
Did you miss the majority of the conversation? This is exactly what is happening.
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if you wish to continue having some naive conversation about some imaginary world where punk ideals trump the day to day reality of paying bills and slogging thru this shit world and no bands should ever do anything that is counter to the MRR handbook go right ahead but I won't be joining you
Yep, the world I live in is imaginary. The bills I pay aren't real. I live in a hazy fun punk alter-reality. Come and join me man, the beer runs outta trees and there are pizzas growing in pumpkin patches.
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this is laughable in the context of this discussion because if we were typing about some large corporation that was coming in and RIPPING OFF THE SCENE, MAN!!!!!!!!!!! we wouldn't be having this discussion cause what bands would still be participating?
Did you miss the majority of the conversation? This is exactly what is happening.
really?
nobunny just said "Scion has been fine by me. They pay on time and generally do what they say they are going to do."
so which bands worked with Scion and got ripped off? All i've read so far is a bunch of people's responses who have not worked with Scion basically saying this<direct quote>
"there is a CAR company trying to use you, your music, and your taste"
pardon me but if that means they hand me money after playing a show then by all means use me, my music, and my exquisite taste.
oh you protectors of the cherished and fragile SCENE, how long suffering you are
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All the animals in my world look like this:
(http://www.flash-screen.com/free-wallpaper/uploads/201010/thus/1286948038_470x353_ghost-dog.jpg)
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Or this:
(http://doghalloweencostumesshop.com/images/thumbnails/ghost-dog-costumes.jpg)
(http://s2.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/DE8BB90F.jpg)
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Whenever I meet people who actually have Scions it makes me laugh.
They seem like a made up company or something.
They used to sponsor those McCarren Park pool parties and I thought it was ridiculous because no one in NY even drives, but I talked to someone who works with them and apparently it's like "lifetime marketing"... so they think that in 10 years when I pop out some kids and need to buy a car I'll say "Scion used to show me a good time" and buy a Scion.
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I had never even heard of Scion before this thread, so whatever they are trying to do is WORKING!
we got PUNK'D
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
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I'm no more mad at these bands than I am at myself for living in a society where I allow myself to get screwed over daily and I don't do anything to stop it. There's no line in the sand. We're all victims and we're all part of the problem. Everyone is forced at times to compromise their values in order to survive.
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
While I largely agree with what you're saying here, and have consistently over the years made a big point about exactly that and have given tons of "punx" shit about their making fun of goths and ravers and whatever else, there is a difference between PUNKS and fans of Hoobastank, and that difference is IDEOLOGY. Punk has one, Hoobastank, I assume, does not.
DIY is something that I feel pretty strongly about, to the point where I've ever made my own drugs before. I am working really hard towards limiting my interaction with corporations and shit, and I'm playing in a band while I do it, so it's annoying to me to hear people say they have no other choice.
They do, and if they choose to do that, that's fine, but why do you care if I point out that they're lazy and entitled and have absolutely nothing to do with what I've always known punk to be?
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what the fuck are you morons talking about?
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
Actually, Kevin and I have differing opinion on the matter. So please don't confuse us. He has this idea he calls punk which is important to him. I don't give a shit about what is punk or not. I do not read MRR and didn't even know they had "rules" until this thread. The only time I mentioned something as being punk or not is in regards to sxsw, and I put a question mark at the end, cause is it a punk festival? Maybe it is, I've never been there. But I certainly would never judge someone as being punk or not.
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I did just read a hilarious interview with Vinnie in Negative Guest List. Nice part on dadfag
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http://sxsw.com/sponsors
Wouldn't playing this festival disqualify almost everybody?
we played an unsponsored showcase, not part of the official festival. fuck the official festival.
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I just don't get why anyone cares what I, or MRR or whoever else thinks about this subject. Does my opinion on whether (whoever) is actually a punk band or not really matter to you that much? Consider the source. Of course I am going to feel this way, duh!
What I find particularly silly is people's attempts at justifying this behavior. I respect Justin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
I get it, a lot of you people are a-political, dipshit, let's just have fun rock 'n roll fans. I think you suck. I always have. I think your lifestyle and beliefs are fucking lame. My friends and I used to beat up or fuck with hard people like you at shows, because you don't live up to our standards and we don't think you belong at parties we attend.
You think we're violent, fuckin' braindead morons, and assholes... So why do you worry what the fuck we think of you?
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
what are you even talking about
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
While I largely agree with what you're saying here, and have consistently over the years made a big point about exactly that and have given tons of "punx" shit about their making fun of goths and ravers and whatever else, there is a difference between PUNKS and fans of Hoobastank, and that difference is IDEOLOGY. Punk has one, Hoobastank, I assume, does not.
DIY is something that I feel pretty strongly about, to the point where I've ever made my own drugs before. I am working really hard towards limiting my interaction with corporations and shit, and I'm playing in a band while I do it, so it's annoying to me to hear people say they have no other choice.
They do, and if they choose to do that, that's fine, but why do you care if I point out that they're lazy and entitled and have absolutely nothing to do with what I've always known punk to be?
if you really wanna end yr interaction with corporations, you can always start with yr ISP. it's really easy to trash us for supporting capitalism or not caring about it, but at the end of the day, you're getting mad on the internet. you could probably be spending this time organizing workers or something.
\m/ uP dA pUnX AnArChY!!!11! \m/
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You think I pay for my internet service? Hah!
Also, there are portals to the net that aren't owned be mega-corporations.
I'm on here because I'm easily distracted. I'm on the internet doing work, for myself.
I don't care about organizing the workers. Most of them are idiots. I care about educating people within MY community about the fact that they don't have to play the game.
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
what are you even talking about
what is anybody talking about in this moron thread?
and it's typing...no one's talking in here, mr mensa
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if you really wanna end yr interaction with corporations, you can always start with yr ISP. it's really easy to trash us for supporting capitalism or not caring about it, but at the end of the day, you're getting mad on the internet. you could probably be spending this time organizing workers or something.
\m/ uP dA pUnX AnArChY!!!11! \m/
Yeah, I've thought about trying to organize action, but based on the response of most people I've talked to I think that most people are too unwilling or too lazy or too scared to try to take any kind of extreme action, which is what I think is needed.
Instead, I actually AM currently doing things other than argue on message boards. I've moved away from one of the biggest corporate machines in the world (NYC -- love ya and hate ya!) and I am doing everything in my ability to get off the grid. My husband and I are farming, making all of our own bath and cleaning products, and living off the land to the best of our abilities. We're looking into getting solar panels for electricity and heating our place with a wood stove, using wood we've chopped down.
Also, I'd like to repeat that I'm not mad! I want to open a dialogue about this kind of stuff because it's important to me.
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what is anybody talking about in this moron thread?
Values, ideals, ethics, integrity and it's relation to the music and community that most of us share some allegiance to.
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Also I'm not claiming to be any kind of saint or anything like that. I've made all kinds of shitty compromises. I've worked for a huge corporation. I've paid for my insurance, paid my income taxes, I've decorated my cubicle all nice and pretty. Life sucks. It's hard. I'm making a decision to change based on my own core beliefs at this time in my life. It's not a lifestyle I would expect anyone else to follow or even be capable of the sacrifices needed to live this way. But I do expect people to at least think about shit and think about what angers them and what they could possibly do to change their situation for the better.
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Or maybe y'all are happy in your cubicles, making shit money, and getting shitty healthcare. Who am I to tell you that you should be angry... sorry. I just assume my situation isn't completely unique.
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
what are you even talking about
and it's typing...no one's talking in here, mr mensa
is this dad humor? are you 50?
i guess what i meant to "type" was "what message are you trying to convey by slamming down your sausage fingers on your keyboard?"
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LET'S ALL GET BUTT NAKED AND FUCK
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSN-fisDORc
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LET'S ALL GET BUTT NAKED AND FUCK
Now this thread cums to what I am all about lately.
Gimmie a puff and put a scoop up to my nose, and let me hit it and make your toes curl
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSN-fisDORc
Rachael was right. WE DO think a like
e
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This thread makes me wish I would have saved some crack from last night.
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There's no returning from Pop-Punk now. Not even my balls are gonna rescue this one.
As a fan (or dork or whining teenage girl or asshole or lemming or elitest or however you wanna say it), the only question I have about the whole thing is if it cheapens things. I think it does. Does that mean that the bands and labels that go along with this shit are asshole scene terrorists? No. I've had to do FAR more demoralizing bullshit to earn my living than record Scion jingles...but isn't that essentially what's happening here????
I know there are plenty of folks who think caring about this shit is stupid, and that's totally fine...but I still think it's a conversation worth having.
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what is anybody talking about in this moron thread?
Values, ideals, ethics, integrity and it's relation to the music and community that most of us share some allegiance to.
mmmm hmmm and I was just taking a big old shit on that nonsense
bon appetit
allegiance to none
if you don't understand things, neighborhoodwatch, it's okay. it's also okay to ask for someone to explain. unfortunately I'm not a teacher nor am I inclined to smarten up a dummy...and that would be 75 not 50
and just to clarify my tevin/kina thing was cause kevin has posted under your name tina not that I think you share a worldview...so never sure who is actually typing what
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humans cheapen things, mitch
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This thread makes me wish I would have saved some ASS crack from last night.
LET'S ALL GET BUTT NAKED AND FUCK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSN-fisDORc
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There's no returning from Pop-Punk now. Not even my balls are gonna rescue this one.
As a fan (or dork or whining teenage girl or asshole or lemming or elitest or however you wanna say it), the only question I have about the whole thing is if it cheapens things. I think it does. Does that mean that the bands and labels that go along with this shit are asshole scene terrorists? No. I've had to do FAR more demoralizing bullshit to earn my living than record Scion jingles...but isn't that essentially what's happening here????
I know there are plenty of folks who think caring about this shit is stupid, and that's totally fine...but I still think it's a conversation worth having.
BINGO. Mitch is right once again.
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humans cheapen things, mitch
humans make things, faceless suits at corporations cheapen them
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who are humans...you might wish for them to be faceless suits so better to justify your hate but that is the same thought that inspires war and every other horror our kind has brought on this world and itself for all of history
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who are humans...you might wish for them to be faceless suits so better to justify your hate but that is the same thought that inspires war and every other horror our kind has brought on this world and itself for all of history
Some wars are justified.
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who are humans...you might wish for them to be faceless suits so better to justify your hate but that is the same thought that inspires war and every other horror our kind has brought on this world and itself for all of history
You act like the fact that you're a human eliminates accountability. I kinda like that, because that means if I go to your house, beat the fuck out of you, tie you up in the basement and set you on fire while I rob you blind before stopping by your mother's house to rape and murder her, that when you get out of a coma, you will forgive me, because you don't want to show me horror or violence, which the system would surely show me if I was arrested.
Thanks, I'll be over around nine.
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Having the conversation is important, and it's stupid to fall back on a non-argument like, "Why don't you go organize some workers instead of blabbing about this stuff." You're supposed to think critically about your culture and have the discussion.
Part of what rankles me about this is how cheaply this culture can be bought. How much money did anybody actually make from these ugly-ass records, anyway? A couple thou? Come on, guys. If you're gonna sell out, make like Wham! and MAKE IT BIG. Or okay, like Royal Trux, at least. Get a million bucks from Virgin and spend it on recording equipment and dope. Give 'em a record with a revolting cover that no one save a couple thousand goons like us is gonna buy. Or pull a Scritti Politti, and make music that actually aspires to something higher than the bottom rungs of the CMJ top 100. Write a #1 single about lovin' big butts or Foucault's pendulum (dong). This middle-of-the-road, half-assed selling-out is the worst, because it's incremental, it doesn't actually pay the bills, and all it does is create this little corporate ghetto where the million-industries can drop some chump change and write it off on their taxes or maybe collect a little cred.
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I already know you're a true believer, kevin.I'm a nihilist, we will never agree. and no being a human doesn't eliminate accountability...you're the one trying to say that all these people are like this and all these other people are like that. I'm saying your thought process, which is a very human thought process, is what is the thing that keeps fucking us up. by the way come on over, I haven't killed anyone in a very long time. you won't make it past the mailbox I guarantee.
dave martin stated the gist of the whole thing I think perfectly
"The main argument was certain people feeling it was a sell-out move for bands to take corporate money, that is betrayal to their "audience". Obviously if you want to make bank, being in some band is not a wise way to go about it. That being said, it would help if certain people would stop being so goddamn pedantic and self-reverential.
However, I do agree it is lame when you know there are bands that form simply to get write-ups in the right blogs/press and angle from day one for a corporate payday without much thought of actually making good music. That aspect of all this is pathetic. But for bands that luck into getting some $$$ along the way, seems fine and dandy to me"
now why would the audience feel it was a "betrayal"? cause it makes them realize they're just a bunch of dummies like those other bunch of dummies...not special, not cooler
and there are plenty of bands I'm sure that were formed for "the wrong reasons" that lots of people here still can't stop fellating
I'm still baffled by this "collecting cred" thing
I know that's what Scion is hoping for but all I've heard is people shit talk em...so where is this cred coming from...the bands who are cashing the checks, the new interlopers who used to love kings of leon but now are gumming up the bathrooms at the apache dropout show?
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not trying to jump too much into this, but i would imagine that some of the "suits" at scion or advertising agencies who would even think of contacting a termbo-type band for licensing or sponsorships is just some termbo-type dude who loves the music and finds themselves in the position of "creative director" or "marketing coordinator" and thinks, "hey, now that i have been in this job for five years and have a little bit of decision-making power, it might be cool to host gigs with tyvek and nobunny." it's not like some 60-year old "evil" CEO is sitting in his boardroom and thinking of how to co-opt the "scene." these things are probably coming from 25-35 year old guys who could be our friends and who like good music...not saying this makes it "right" but it at least contextualizes how this shit probably happens. if you think the guy at the ad agency wearing a smart cops shirt to work or whatever is just as much of a "suit" as the square, out of touch, rich CEO, that's fine, but i disagree.
i agree with the idea that a corporate logo on a "punk" show pretty much kills any punk cred the show may have had, but for some folks that isn't the only factor to consider. tyvek was a cool band before the scion interest, and they are a cool band afterwards. i think it's understandable to say that maybe they've lost a bit of edge by taking some loot from scion, but i doubt they give a shit about purist cred.
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I personally love corpoartions. Seriously. Makes life way easier.
You like soda? BAM! have a Mexican Coke, it's terrific.
You like computers? BAM! Get a Dell.
You smoke cigs? BAM! Camel Lights, already rolled for you and have a filter.
You like records? BAM! Every good punk band was on a major label.
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fuck you, vinnie
me and kevin are gonna come over to your house and after setting you on fire and raping you were gonna make you learn how to dig a well and produce your own electricity through green means
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Thank god, Mark Beef finally "GETS IT"
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I personally have a ton of money.
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I personally have a ton of money.
Like I said from the get go, these bands should be selling drugs instead of selling cars, just like you Vinnie!
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So he's not still slingin pizza for lesbians?
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I have various sources of income. One is making pizza for yuppies and lesbians, often times a combination of the two. I also have made quite a bit of money letting gay men suck my dick. In fact I just got an Epicycle - You're Not Gonna Get It EP with the money I made sitting in Dolores Park at 3am.
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Mark Beef, wnkrs, chrizow, Boots Electric, Mitch, Vinnie, violet times, erickelric, tahiti amin, Christopher Lasch, Old Kyle, dusty medical, PlayPinball!, Busted, juan, ItchyEyeBall, OPP, Jangerload and 57 Guests are viewing this topic.
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I personally love corpoartions. Seriously. Makes life way easier.
You like soda? BAM! have a Mexican Coke, it's terrific.
You like computers? BAM! Get a Dell.
You smoke cigs? BAM! Camel Lights, already rolled for you and have a filter.
You like records? BAM! Every good punk band was on a major label.
This is the funniest thing Vinnie has ever said
MIKE- My name is Rachel, not Rachael like Rachael fucking Ray
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The funny part is.....I don't even like punk.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Dromornis_BW.jpg)
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I also have made quite a bit of money letting gay men suck my dick.
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I hope none of the chicken hawks work for Scion
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well I admit that I was completely wrong in my thinking then after your last posts, tevin/kina
the problem is all of you think this fucking little enclave or your membership in it renders you "cool" as opposed to the idiots who like hoobastank or papa roach or justin bieber or whatever
it doesn't...you're all (me included) a bunch of bags of flesh with semi functioning brains who work in a cubicle or some other place, much like those other music fans do, and you have some hobbies which are no different then collecting tea cozies or going out and reenacting civil war battles
get over your selves, elitists
While I largely agree with what you're saying here, and have consistently over the years made a big point about exactly that and have given tons of "punx" shit about their making fun of goths and ravers and whatever else, there is a difference between PUNKS and fans of Hoobastank, and that difference is IDEOLOGY. Punk has one, Hoobastank, I assume, does not.
DIY is something that I feel pretty strongly about, to the point where I've ever made my own drugs before. I am working really hard towards limiting my interaction with corporations and shit, and I'm playing in a band while I do it, so it's annoying to me to hear people say they have no other choice.
They do, and if they choose to do that, that's fine, but why do you care if I point out that they're lazy and entitled and have absolutely nothing to do with what I've always known punk to be?
also just to answer your question, kevin...I don't remember Nobunny or Dirtbombs or Dan Melchior or
Manniquin Men or Jack Oblivian or Davila 666 ever claiming to be "punk". So there's that. You're railing against a bunch of indie rock (as in rock and roll that is not tied to major labels and even some of that is questionable) doing what it has never pretended, in my mind, to be against. The one dude who did do a "punk" scion left a box full of scion merch unopened under a table and took a photo of a flyer he made that he TAPED a scion logo to RIGHT BEFORE HE TOOK THE PHOTO. I see no difference between that and anything your precious Sex Pistols did.
Also I don't think anyone has abandoned their dayjobs because of the lucrative Scion paycheck. People expecting to be able to live off their band or music or "art" is a whole nother topic than bands getting an occasional windfall from corporate interests.
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Whoa, Scion just paypalled me six hundred dollars? Did this happen to anyone else?
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Scion seems sick
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Whoa, Scion just paypalled me six hundred dollars? Did this happen to anyone else?
Guess you can't write reviews for MRR anymore then.
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I have to admit I like it when Scion flies my friends in and gives them money and they buy me drinks.
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I have to admit I like it when Scion flies my friends in and gives them money and they buy me drinks.
You're drinking with their dirty money, Rachel. NOT PUNX
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Mark Beef, wnkrs, chrizow, Boots Electric, Mitch, Vinnie, violet times, erickelric, tahiti amin, Christopher Lasch, Old Kyle, dusty medical, PlayPinball!, Busted, juan, ItchyEyeBall, OPP, Jangerload and 57 Guests are viewing this topic.
As a punk rock insurance adjuster, this thread interests me.
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Rachel I am sorry I compared you to someone who would be on the food network
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Mark Beef, wnkrs, chrizow, Boots Electric, Mitch, Vinnie, violet times, erickelric, tahiti amin, Christopher Lasch, Old Kyle, dusty medical, PlayPinball!, Busted, juan, ItchyEyeBall, OPP, Jangerload and 57 Guests are viewing this topic.
As a punk rock insurance adjuster, this thread interests me.
Health insurance by any chance? Can you give me any advice on how to get them to stop lying to me about my coverage?
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i got std's from this thread. thanks alot, vinnie
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I'm in property claims. My advice though is to understand the coverage in the policy you sign. If it's hard for you to understand, discuss it thoroughly with your agent before you start paying the premium.
I don't know enough of the details of your situation to take sides, it'd be great if you had some record of what the agents told you to compare against the policies. I can say, in my experience, the carrier would rather pay for a covered loss than spend the time with legal disputes. Also, all of my training and instruction as an adjuster has urged me to do everything possible to indemnify the insured within the limits of the policy, to the extent that my pay table is directly related to the amount approved in the claim. That is to say, insurance adjuster's aren't being trained to try to screw their clients, many times, vilification begins when the insured never took the time to understand their policy.
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tina said
"Health insurance by any chance? Can you give me any advice on how to get them to stop lying to me about my coverage?"
next time they say something is covered make them give it to you in writing...then when they reneg and say you owe them blah blah blah you have that. Maybe you could use it against them in a court of law, maybe they'd drop you as a person they'd insure.
SYSTEM SUCKS
SYSTEM SUCKS
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You guys are still talking about this shit? Hell, since I last posted I drove to south Sac to get my saxophone, hit a couple thrift shops and had some excellent scores, and picked up a pizza....all in my Scion!
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(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4ywRcjkeX8M/SrFF6iHpeuI/AAAAAAAAAXo/kpxq4G5sNDQ/s800/PenisPig.jpg)
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You guys are still talking about this shit? Hell, since I last posted I drove to some park in SF to get my SAC saxophoned, hit up a couple street hustlers and had some excellent scores, and picked up a pizza punker....all in my Scion!
I thought that was called a dirty TROMBONE
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(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4ywRcjkeX8M/SrFF6iHpeuI/AAAAAAAAAXo/kpxq4G5sNDQ/s800/PenisPig.jpg)
(http://www.costumeshopper.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rtp1586.jpg)
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hey funboys
we're trying to have a serious discussion about cultural imperatives and signifiers and just to what extent they are fluid
okay, sheesh
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cultural imperatives and signifiers and just to what extent they are fluid
THAT'S NOT PUNK RAWK
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(http://www.costumeshopper.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rtp1586.jpg)
Finally someone adding to the conversation. This is the first logical, thought-out reply since pg.1.
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Did those recent Zero Boy's reissues get reviewed in MRR? What about Dow Jones?
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how come in some stores MRR has this stupid sticker with a bar code on it over Timmy Vulgar's picture? Can you guys stop doing that?
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Did those recent Zero Boy's reissues get reviewed in MRR? What about Dow Jones?
Not sure about Zero Boys. Believe I saw the Dow Jones single in the review bin this month though...again, not quite sure.
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(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_4ywRcjkeX8M/SrFF6iHpeuI/AAAAAAAAAXo/kpxq4G5sNDQ/s800/PenisPig.jpg)
(http://www.costumeshopper.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/rtp1586.jpg)
(http://www.funnyden.com/funnypics/180/penis04.gif)
you're a cockmaster.
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You guys are still talking about this shit? Hell, since I last posted I drove to south Sac to get my saxophone, hit a couple thrift shops and had some excellent scores, and picked up a pizza....all in my Scion!
Don't forget about meeting Vinnie at Dolores Park at 3am!
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You guys are still talking about this shit? Hell, since I last posted I drove to some park in SF to get my SAC saxophoned, hit up a couple street hustlers and had some excellent scores, and picked up a pizza punker....all in my Scion!
I thought that was called a dirty TROMBONE
YOU PEOPLE DON'T EVEN READ MY GAY SAUSAGE!!!!!!!!!
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LET'S ALL GET BUTT NAKED AND FUCK
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since i last read this thread i drove from york, pa to asbury park, nj to wait for my wife while she was getting a tattoo and i bought some 90s garage recs in true turkey fashion, and also a DRI lp.
PUNK???
we did eat at macdowell's once during this trip.
i'd also like to take this opportunity for any bands that don't give a fuk to sign a one 45 deal with black gladiator (there's no signiong involved). no fags please. and by that i mean you can suck all the disk you wat, just don't suck;
wizzard sleeve did it/
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how many vehicles/tube socks/fests/45s/monies will you give me?
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45S ONLY. 10%.
punk!
I GET 5%.
PUNK?
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since i last read this thread i drove from york, pa to asbury park, nj to wait for my wife while she was getting a tattoo and i bought some 90s garage recs in true turkey fashion, and also a DRI lp.
PUNK???
we did eat at macdowell's once during this trip.
i'd also like to take this opportunity for any bands that don't give a fuk to sign a one 45 deal with black gladiator (there's no signiong involved). no fags please. and by that i mean you can suck all the disk you wat, just don't suck;
wizzard sleeve did it/
can we put a doritos logo on the cover? i like doritos.
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45S ONLY. 10%.
punk!
I GET 5%.
PUNK?
DO WE GET TO STRAP THE OTHER 85% TO THE HOOD OF A SCION AND SMASH THEM IN A DEMOLITION DERBY?
EBAY DIVIDENDS!!!!!!!!1
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since i last read this thread i drove from york, pa to asbury park, nj to wait for my wife while she was getting a tattoo and i bought some 90s garage recs in true turkey fashion, and also a DRI lp.
PUNK???
we did eat at macdowell's once during this trip.
i'd also like to take this opportunity for any bands that don't give a fuk to sign a one 45 deal with black gladiator (there's no signiong involved). no fags please. and by that i mean you can suck all the disk you wat, just don't suck;
wizzard sleeve did it/
you are welcome to do a THE ONIONS 45...
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I'm still great.
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Sacrifice is the archaic form of exchange. It is a magical exchange, unquantified, irrational. it dominated human relationships, including commercial relationships, until merchant capitalism and its money-the-measure-of-all-things had carved out such a large area in the world of slaves, serfs and burghers that the economy could appear as a particular zone, a domain separated from life. When money appears, the element of exchange in the feudal gift begins to win out. The sacrifice-gift, the potlatch -- that exchange-game of loser-takes-all in which the size of the sacrifice determines the prestige of the giver -- could hardly find a place in a rationalized exchange economy. Forced out of the sectors dominated by economic imperatives, it finds itself reincarnated in values such as hospitality, friendship and love: refuges doomed to disappear as the dictatorship of quantified exchange (market value) colonises everyday life and turns it into a market.
Raoul Vaneigem, The Revolution of Everyday Life
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/special/centennial/march/photo/potlatch_mascot.gif)
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Sounds like that dude was reading Bataille.
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Sacrifice is the archaic form of exchange. It is a magical exchange, unquantified, irrational. It dominated the punk scene, including in commercial relationships, until some dumb car company, with their money-the-measure-of-all-things had carved out such a large area in the world of punks, freaks and other weirdos that the economy could appear as a particular zone, a domain separated from music. When money appears, the element of exchange in the feudal gift begins to win out. The sacrifice-gift, the potlatch -- that exchange-game of loser-takes-all in which the size of the sacrifice determines the prestige of the giver -- could hardly find a place in a rationalized exchange music scene. Forced out of the sectors dominated by economic imperatives, it finds itself reincarnated in values such as hospitality, friendship and love: refuges doomed to disappear from the punk scene as the dictatorship of quantified exchange (market value) colonises everyday life and turns it into a market.
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since i last read this thread i drove from york, pa to asbury park, nj to wait for my wife while she was getting a tattoo and i bought some 90s garage recs in true turkey fashion, and also a DRI lp.
PUNK???
we did eat at macdowell's once during this trip.
i'd also like to take this opportunity for any bands that don't give a fuk to sign a one 45 deal with black gladiator (there's no signiong involved). no fags please. and by that i mean you can suck all the disk you wat, just don't suck;
wizzard sleeve did it/
can we put a doritos logo on the cover? i like doritos.
only if the use is punk.
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I've been thinking about this a little more trying to figure out why it is that Scion putting out a 7" seems to anger people way more than bands playing shows with corporate sponsors (ie sxsw) or bands getting a song on car commercial (usually the reaction seems to be, whoa that's crazy! but not anger in my experience).
Mitch's comment about how it cheapens things got me thinking (uh oh, right!). I don't have any of these 7"s but I can only assume that the quality of the music didn't change just because Scion released it. I think the thing that gives people an "icky" feeling is that putting out 7"s is something that WE do and many of us take great pride is creating and collecting authentic artifacts of our time. Having a car company do this is just kinda like a "fuck you" to all the hard work and pride that we take in making these things. It cheapens the experience. We are not quite as offended, I don't think, when a song is used on a car commercial because we don't make car commercials. That's what they do. We make 7"s. Does this make sense?
As far as all my anti-capitalist rantings and ravings, they really don't have as much to do with the punk scene or this situation, as they do about the fact that I'm fed up with society at large and am ready for revolution.
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so, what's the verdict on Private Media Group, Inc. using music by the lamps in one of their porn movies?
and to keep it serious, ferdinand braudel, i think, divided the types of production? exchange? can't really remember correctly, into three areas - informal exchange (doing favours and helping out your friends, family, etc.), economy (formalized exchange, production, etc) and capitalism (production of money). now, capitalism is muscling in on economy's turf, and economy is crowding out the informal exchange. basically, human values = fucked.
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Soriano's already eaten a block of cheese this AM while we've been talking about this.
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re: commercials
the music was already created/ released, and now someone wants to pay you to use it.
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I've been thinking about this a little more trying to figure out why it is that Scion putting out a 7" seems to anger people way more than bands playing shows with corporate sponsors (ie sxsw) or bands getting a song on car commercial (usually the reaction seems to be, whoa that's crazy! but not anger in my experience).
Mitch's comment about how it cheapens things got me thinking (uh oh, right!). I don't have any of these 7"s but I can only assume that the quality of the music didn't change just because Scion released it. I think the thing that gives people an "icky" feeling is that putting out 7"s is something that WE do and many of us take great pride is creating and collecting authentic artifacts of our time. Having a car company do this is just kinda like a "fuck you" to all the hard work and pride that we take in making these things. It cheapens the experience. We are not quite as offended, I don't think, when a song is used on a car commercial because we don't make car commercials. That's what they do. We make 7"s. Does this make sense?
As far as all my anti-capitalist rantings and ravings, they really don't have as much to do with the punk scene or this situation, as they do about the fact that I'm fed up with society at large and am ready for revolution.
Ownership/possession: A band plays under a Miller banner at SXSW or gets a song purchased by a commercial and for you, the user, it is a transient experience. You walk out of the room or turn off the TV and the sponsorship is gone. The sponsorship seems more passive than active, temporary not permanent; it is like a temporary tattoo. A band producing something under a corporate label is being branded, both literally and metaphorically. A brand seems permanent. If you own the record, you not only own the music (or music carrier) but you possess the corporate trademark as well. In six months, when a TV commercial has been dropped out of rotation and some SXSW set is a distant memory at best, the records with a Scion logo still stands.
Territory: The corporate world not only abandoned vinyl, but they sought to destroy it. Indie labels - primarily those dealing in dance and punk - not only kept it alive but made it viable. This is our medium. CDs are their medium. (They never had control over the MP3, if anything that has become the hacker's or the people's medium.) Through their greed, the corporate labels destroyed the viability of their medium and now they turn to vinyl. We begrudgingly accept major labels getting back into vinyl because they have a history. But a car company? The last car company record I remember is the Raspberries' "Let's Pretend" Rollswagon 45. Perhaps we overlook that one because it is the Raspberries and nothing is better than a Volkswagon Bug with a Rolls Royce grill attached to it BUT it is corporate sponsorship. In any case, vinyl is not their territory; it is our territory - or at least we thought it was. Now we are looking at another grab of (http://our) culture, our life by the corporate world and we feel under attack. Perhaps in less economically scary times something like this would elicit a chuckle. Now, for some, it seems like an assault.
(http://www.jdsrecordshop.com/March7-80.JPG)
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Ate a block of cheese and wrote an essay.
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So who can get me a copy of the Human Eye 7" on Scion?
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(http://staticoponx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fuckscion.jpg)
http://staticoponx.com/2011/03/only-stupid-bastards-help-scion/ (http://staticoponx.com/2011/03/only-stupid-bastards-help-scion/)
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(http://www.scionconnection.com/images/blackboxrocksB.jpg)
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Sounds like that dude was reading Bataille.
Probably Marcel Mauss, who wrote a book called The Gift that focused on the potlatch and the concept of value in pre-capitalist societies. You're right that Bataille wrote on the subject too in his books on economics, e.g. The Accursed Share. The potlatch and the theme of non-monetary exchange is common to a lot of Marxist critical theory, for good reason.
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Sounds like that dude was reading Bataille.
Probably Marcel Mauss, who wrote a book called The Gift that focused on the potlatch and the concept of value in pre-capitalist societies. You're right that Bataille wrote on the subject too in his books on economics, e.g. The Accursed Share. The potlatch and the theme of non-monetary exchange is common to a lot of Marxist critical theory, for good reason.
Non-monetary exchange? Like swapping spit?
HEY MITCH, I GUESS WE ARE MARXISTS!
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(http://staticoponx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/fuckscion.jpg)
http://staticoponx.com/2011/03/only-stupid-bastards-help-scion/ (http://staticoponx.com/2011/03/only-stupid-bastards-help-scion/)
of course those buttons are "in the store"
CAN'T WAIT TO BUY A DOZEN TO HELP SUPPORT THE REVOLUTION!
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buy some bootleg punk shirts while yr at it!
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Awesome.
I still think it's lame that these bands aren't even selling out for a decent chunk of change. HOW MUCH ARE THEY PAYING?! If it's just airfare, drinks, and a thousand or two... that's pretty sad.
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true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
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buy some bootleg punk shirts while yr at it!
I get it, but, I dunno. If bands care about making money off of their merchandise, I think it's their job to make sure it's available. If a band doesn't care to keep the supply there for the demand of their product, I don't know they should whine if someone else fills it for them. Especially in the punk scene.
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also I heard there were dick pics in here somewhere....
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true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
Come on Laura, if *I* can afford to buy a plane ticket, you certainly can. You're practically a real person.
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I think what Scott said made a lot of sense.
I too am a big fan of cheese. Although, I'd say the block of cheese I'm nibbling on out here in Wisconsin is far superior to his Californian variety.
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true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
Come on Laura, if *I* can afford to buy a plane ticket, you certainly can. You're practically a real person.
but I CAN'T because I spent all my money on buying/fixing shitty vans!!
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here's the thing: a handful of Scion 7"s is not going to destroy the "Scene" as we know it. they're not going to usurp the role of small labels in putting out new bands. are they, in some sense, stealing the fruits of our labor? yeah. but it doesn't matter. that's not where they got their money from. they're not going to make much more money pimping records from Nobunny or Tyvek. we're not even the people they'll actually sell those cars to. if someone at the top of the food chain wants to kick a few bucks down to me, fuck it, I'll take it. I'm not on their side. I don't need to be to get that money!!
ETA: full disclosure: I am old, a sellout, and no one has offered me any money in exchange for my rock skillz, ever.
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So who can get me a copy of the Human Eye 7" on Scion?
I offered it to Russ but he hasn't messaged me yet. If you do and send me your address (yeah yeah I could get it myself but I need to justify not sending it to him somehow if you beat his ass to the chase) it's yours. I should of grabbed a stack of these rather then pushing them all into the trash can at Beerland...
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a handful of Scion 7"s is not going to destroy the "Scene" as we know it.
No, you're right, it won't destroy the scene as we already know it, but things are already fucked enough and it's more than just a small step in the wrong direction. Maybe that's what is needed though, this shit to be made completely worthless so some kids can come up and show us what the fuck is really up.
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I'm waiting for the complete collapse of society to commence so we can get into that real raw shit.
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I respect Kevin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/jj112.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/JJ11.jpg)(mark of the beast!)
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I actually agree with you Kevin, but I think that shit is SO FUCKED that in a few years, we'll be laughing about a time when we cared whether a car company really GETS our music.
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I respect Kevin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/jj112.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/JJ11.jpg)(mark of the beast!)
fuck, what happened??? everyone was supposed to be poppin' bottles and sitting in front of Scarface-esque piles of blow by now
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I think what Scott said made a lot of sense.
I too am a big fan of cheese. Although, I'd say the block of cheese I'm nibbling on out here in Wisconsin is far superior to his Californian variety.
Sorry, babe. I am a total cheese homo. I am on cheese the way some folks are into microbrews. I dont care where you are, a block of cheese from a small time cheese maker is gonna "rock harder" than some factory cheese. Or in other words, indie cheese is better than Scion cheese. You know how I deal with Scion cheese? I don't whine about it. I don't bitch about how un-punk it is. I just don't buy it! Novel fucking concept. BTW: Last block of cheese I ate was a very stinky chunk of very dry imported Italian provolone. So fucking stinky it makes your eyes water. Pure heaven!
-
ever eat "morbier"? I think it's French for "death smell." smells like a waterlogged body, tastes like heaven.
MY CHEESE TOO PUNK FOR YA'LL
-
here's the thing: a handful of Scion 7"s is not going to destroy the "Scene" as we know it. they're not going to usurp the role of small labels in putting out new bands. are they, in some sense, stealing the fruits of our labor? yeah. but it doesn't matter. that's not where they got their money from. they're not going to make much more money pimping records from Nobunny or Tyvek. we're not even the people they'll actually sell those cars to. if someone at the top of the food chain wants to kick a few bucks down to me, fuck it, I'll take it. I'm not on their side. I don't need to be to get that money!!
ETA: full disclosure: I am old, a sellout, and no one has offered me any money in exchange for my rock skillz, ever.
Maybe the difference is the intentions behind why you are in a band? If you are doing it only to have a great time, make silly fun music, party, get drunk, get buck wild, etc.. I guess I can see why you would take money from whomever. If you are in a band that takes itself seriously and makes decisions based on some set of values, ones that don't include having a permanent Scion logo sticking out like a sore thumb in their discography for the rest of time, that's another road to go down. If you don't really care about where money comes from or having the logo plastered all over your stuff or how you are remembered in the future, go buck wild, have fun girl! I'll still have a drink with you!
-
I'm waiting for the complete collapse of society to commence so we can get into that real raw shit.
me too
-
Every band I've talked to that has done one of their shows says the socks are awesome.
-
SS has partnered with Cowgirl Creamery to make a special cheese for SS10.
-
so wait ... Tina ... you're saying that reasonable, intelligent people might come to different conclusions about what makes music-making worthwhile? what are you, a fuckin COP?????
-
SS has partnered with Cowgirl Creamery to make a special cheese for SS10.
don't want to know what goes into the "special cheese"
-
Foreskin lint.
-
I think what Scott said made a lot of sense.
I too am a big fan of cheese. Although, I'd say the block of cheese I'm nibbling on out here in Wisconsin is far superior to his Californian variety.
Sorry, babe. I am a total cheese homo. I am on cheese the way some folks are into microbrews. I dont care where you are, a block of cheese from a small time cheese maker is gonna "rock harder" than some factory cheese. Or in other words, indie cheese is better than Scion cheese. You know how I deal with Scion cheese? I don't whine about it. I don't bitch about how un-punk it is. I just don't buy it! Novel fucking concept. BTW: Last block of cheese I ate was a very stinky chunk of very dry imported Italian provolone. So fucking stinky it makes your eyes water. Pure heaven!
But if we don't "whine about our cheese" how are we going to open discourse about the nature of cheese so that people can think about it before they take a bite into the really stinky shit. Example: I heard their using Scion cheese at Taco Bell now, and that shit don't even have dairy in it!
-
Every band I've talked to that has done one of their shows says the socks are awesome.
TRUTH
-
I respect Kevin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/jj112.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/JJ11.jpg)(mark of the beast!)
The reason I'm wearing sunglasses in both these videos is because I'm actually crying.
-
so wait ... Tina ... you're saying that reasonable, intelligent people might come to different conclusions about what makes music-making worthwhile? what are you, a fuckin COP?????
Last night Kevin convinced his 7 year old niece that cops are really just robots who look like humans.
-
does scion actually makes a profit off of this record thing? i get that it's all lifestyle branding, but i can't believe that the whole record thing is actually a lucrative venture.
-
I think what Scott said made a lot of sense.
it usually does.
-
does scion actually makes a profit off of this record thing? i get that it's all lifestyle branding, but i can't believe that the whole record thing is actually a lucrative venture.
They give the records away for free and fly in + pay bands (above quote, mostly) to play free shows. They're not taking a nickel from anyone.
-
true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
Come on Laura, if *I* can afford to buy a plane ticket, you certainly can. You're practically a real person.
but I CAN'T because I spent all my money on buying/fixing shitty vans!!
And tupperware weed
-
(http://www.generallyawesome.com/provolone.gif)
-
Took Scion $$$ to play a show, don't care. We didn't compromise anything. That being said, I didn't know the show was sponsored by Scion until we showed up. Would never do a record for them though. I think there is a huge difference. Can't imagine Sex Church ever being offered that though either.
-
true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
Come on Laura, if *I* can afford to buy a plane ticket, you certainly can. You're practically a real person.
but I CAN'T because I spent all my money on buying/fixing shitty vans!!
And tupperware weed
gotta keep that shit fresh yo!
is this the man known as Troy? we were not formally introduced. thanks for noting my swank drug packaging.
-
SS has partnered with Cowgirl Creamery to make a special cheese for SS10.
The Cowgirl Creamery works is right across the hall from my office. Stinky.
-
true, but that's probably the biggest financial reward most people are gonna get from this racket ... nothing wrong with doing it for the LOVE OF THE GAME, but seriously ... I haven't been on a plane in 15 years. if someone wants to fly me somewhere and get me drunk I'm not in a position to turn it down. as much as I love driving around the country in a shitty van breathing in toxic fumes and drinking Hamms every night, it'd be a nice change of pace.
hello Scion corporate creepers!!
Come on Laura, if *I* can afford to buy a plane ticket, you certainly can. You're practically a real person.
but I CAN'T because I spent all my money on buying/fixing shitty vans!!
And tupperware weed
gotta keep that shit fresh yo!
is this the man known as Troy? we were not formally introduced. thanks for noting my swank drug packaging.
The tupperware was a nice touch, gotta put a slice of lemon in there too with the nugz. Great set by the way, I'm glad people actually filtered in for you guys.
-
If you're in a band that is really insular and lousy at self-promotion, you won't have to worry about this kind of stuff appearing on your doorstep. The only way to be PURE DIY is to have NOBODY CARE. It's worked for me for about 15 years!
-
"MY CHEESE HAS A BIGGER DICK THAN YOUR CHEESE!" -- George Carlin
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
-
Took Scion $$$ to play a show, don't care. We didn't compromise anything. That being said, I didn't know the show was sponsored by Scion until we showed up. Would never do a record for them though. I think there is a huge difference. Can't imagine Sex Church ever being offered that though either.
Yeah, but did you ever think of Human Eye as marketable?
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
Now that's fucking gross. I find this zine WAAAAAAAAAAY more offensive than the records.
-
I concur. Though I think they are both retarded, the zine is a bit too much. How much do these bands get paid to do an interview?
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
Now that's fucking gross. I find this zine WAAAAAAAAAAY more offensive than the records.
Notice Brian Costello is a major contributor.
-
I did notice, and that's a shame.
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
Now that's fucking gross. I find this zine WAAAAAAAAAAY more offensive than the records.
I find it aesthetically very offensive. But any person/organization/publication that uses the term "garage rock" in all seriousness.... I mean, I can't even muster up any righteous anger for that. This shit has nothing to do with me.
-
They have a garage satellite radio channel too? This is a bigger sideline than I thought. It's kind of looney that there's an entire department at Scion devoted to garage rock.
Why are there paid ads in a magazine that is itself an ad? Never mind.
-
Why are there paid ads in a magazine that is itself an ad? Never mind.
Street cred.
-
Scion should just buy MRR when it finally sinks under
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
That is so beyond gross. Fuck this shit.
-
Why are there paid ads in a magazine that is itself an ad? Never mind.
Street cred.
yeah, i wouldn't be surprised if they included that goner ad for free... or even gave them money, hahaha!
-
Scion should just buy MRR when it finally sinks under
pssftt hahahahaha
-
but to be honest - i'm kinda getting interested in their cars now... let's seeeee?
(http://www.scion2012-models.info/images/2011-scion-xb-invoice-price-3.jpg)
yes, i'll take that one. vrrrrooooom
-
Yeah, but you can't deny that the page-turning thing on the "zine" is pretty cool.
As for the rest.....
LET'S GET BUTT NAKED AND FUCK
-
This might've been said already somewhere in the last 50 pages (only half of which I've read), but I think most all of the bands that have done these records have been stickin' it to the man pretty hard by giving Scion hands-down their worst recorded material to date.
-
This might've been said already somewhere in the last 50 pages (only half of which I've read), but I think most all of the bands that have done these records have been stickin' it to the man pretty hard by giving Scion hands-down their worst recorded material to date.
scion made them do it.
-
I respect Kevin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/jj112.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/JJ11.jpg)(mark of the beast!)
The reason I'm wearing sunglasses in both these videos is because I'm actually crying.
took me a couple secs, i was like, "who the fuck are psychedelic horses???" hahahaha...
-
This might've been said already somewhere in the last 50 pages (only half of which I've read), but I think most all of the bands that have done these records have been stickin' it to the man pretty hard by giving Scion hands-down their worst recorded material to date.
The Strange Boys side is pretty funny in that way. I like it, but it's not even a song!
-
This might've been said already somewhere in the last 50 pages (only half of which I've read), but I think most all of the bands that have done these records have been stickin' it to the man pretty hard by giving Scion hands-down their worst recorded material to date.
The Strange Boys side is pretty funny in that way. I like it, but it's not even a song!
Do they give their artists complete freedom or does the work need to be approved? If someone got all Cage-y and did silence on both sides that would be pretty cool. Or the five minutes of farting that was mentioned a little bit earlier, but that would be way less cool since farting is inherently retarded, thus uncool.
-
Ahem....FARTING IS NEVER UNCOOL.
-
I've never wanted to cease to exist more than I do right now. Thanks guys.
-
They should've called that zine
PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF SCION
amirite
?
-
(http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs1/2289046_o.gif)
-
They should've called that zine
PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF SCION
amirite
?
I texted this to Lutzko like three days ago. You tapping my lines, gringo?
-
you wish
-
You guys are still talking about this shit? Since I last posted, I went out and scored a nice stack of private pressings and a huge hunk o' burnin' cheese, and then I went to the bank...and I did it in my Scion.
-
All I've done is jerk off, some laundry, and.......some more jerkin off.
-
Do they give their artists complete freedom or does the work need to be approved?
I don't consider myself one of "their artists", nor do I feel they give/gave me freedom me but besides the cover art...
NO RULES!
Unlike MRR & TERMBO
SCION = Money & Freedom
(http://www.30sleeps.com/images/raining-money.jpg)
(http://pastlifejourneys.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/heavenisboring.jpg)
MRR = Right Wing Facists
(http://www.terminal-boredom.com/lsokmrr.jpg)
(http://www.hitlercontrol.com/images/hilter_youth_mind_contol.jpg)
TERMBO = Richie n Scott
(http://www.profilebrand.com/funny-pictures/category/people/623_fat-goth-gangster.gif)
(http://superherouniverse.com/superheroes/images/fanart2/new/penguin-devito.jpg)
-
Best use of the tried-and-true Soriano = DeVito pic in the history of Termbo. I'm ashamed I didn't think of that sooner. JBC gets the gold star for the day. I owe you 1 beer.
-
hahahaha
-
It was easy as I've seen SSR before. Richie was just a guess.
I'm just salty that I can't post my dick.
And that the excellent punk label Moo-La-La Record$ has morphed into the diarrhea funnel SSR.
SCION/VICE>SS Records
-
I had a dream that I was hanging out with Scott Soriano and he was screaming at me for being an idiot online. We eventually started talking about our childhoods and shit then we got along. I think it was at a show of some kind.
Erick wasn't there
Does Mitch have a shaved head? If so, he was there.
-
I'm like this:
(http://www.poetry-barn.ollhoff.com/with-pictures/obese-wheelbarrow.jpg)
Except with glasses.
-
I respect Kevin because he offers no justification, he just owns the shit. Guess that's why I don't question his punkness. I respect that.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/jj112.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f84/bubblejerk/JJ11.jpg)(mark of the beast!) clcokclean ER? I never knew Her..
The reason I'm wearing sunglasses in both these videos is because I'm actually crying.
took me a couple secs, i was like, "who the fuck are psychedelic horses???" hahahaha...
im sorry but i can stop fuckin laughing at this still shots, it already looks timeless ..period...............p ssftt hahahahahahahaha
jopn norris aiming the mic in mr johnstons direction as rich seems to avert any possible attention.
-
I had a dream that I was hanging out with Scott Soriano and he was screaming at me for being an idiot online. We eventually started talking about our childhoods and shit then we got along. I think it was at a show of some kind.
This is a common dream. Most people have it at least one time in their life. Usually it results in a soiled mattress.
-
I'm like this:
(http://www.poetry-barn.ollhoff.com/with-pictures/obese-wheelbarrow.jpg)
Except with glasses.
We should exchange clothes. I had a dream that I was hanging out with Scott Soriano and he was screaming at me for being an idiot online. We eventually started talking about our childhoods and shit then we got along. I think it was at a show of some kind.
This is a common dream. Most people have it at least one time in their life. Usually it results in a soiled mattress.
Wet but not soiled. Probably from sweating while trying to keep Erick "Dreamscape Snakeman" Hughes from dilly dallying inside my brain. Will try harder next time
-
I believe that may be a Scientific response.
-
That "zine" does give me a sad because it does come across as a very watered-down Hozac especially with the pic spread of bland photos that could barely hold a candle to Canderson...
-
How much money would it take for Scion to convince The Scientists to change their name to The Sciontists.???????
-
20 dollars.
-
Erick wasn't there
Bullshit. I'm like Robert Blake.........I'm inside your house.
-
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3586/3366394723_f63008689e.jpg)
-
Scion should really start building cars with record players installed. Also maybe a Buzzcocks Fast Cars version, Big Boys Frat Cars versions, Nipdrivers Talk About Cars versions, Poison Idea Just To Get Away version. Manowar Wheels of Fire version for the Metal set, a Ric Ocasek and Gary Numan version for the New Wavers
Take this shit all the way
-
I wish Scion reissued all those KBD and power pop records so I didn't have to spend an hour's wage on a 7".
-
hey sunshine at night, why ya teef so white
grab me a couple copies of the scion cola freaks/digital leather split when it hits
-
Erick wasn't there
Bullshit. I'm like Robert Blake.........I'm inside your house.
(http://www.rpmgo.com/cars/d/51813-3/scion_xd_funny_car_tattoo.jpg)
(http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbtmzn1gJf1qe0eclo1_r1_500.gif)
(http://www.lataco.com/taco/wp-content/uploads/jerrystahlresized.jpg)
WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET THE THREE AMIGOS (SORIANO, ERICK HUGHES, MITCH CARDWELL) OUT OF MY DREAMSCAPE???
(http://www.muzeconnects.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ThreeAmigos.jpg)
-
hey sunshine at night, why ya teef so white
grab me a couple copies of the scion cola freaks/digital leather split when it hits
Sunshine at Night hahahaha
Fuck from now on I am grabbing a shit load of whatever records are laying around. I didn't know I could resell this bullshit for more then $3 a pop. I can't wait to glitter bomb that whole reigning sound show coming up.
-
Scion should really start building cars with record players installed. Also maybe a Buzzcocks Fast Cars version, Big Boys Frat Cars versions, Nipdrivers Talk About Cars versions, Poison Idea Just To Get Away version. Manowar Wheels of Fire version for the Metal set, a Ric Ocasek and Gary Numan version for the New Wavers
Take this shit all the way
Ahem... Let's Build a Car?
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
The back of my head is in a Scion zine. I feel dirty.
-
I just now came across the Gories interview. Same old questions. Why nobody ask some funny questions? At least I get to hear Peggy. Oh how I love Peggy.
-
UK Subs Livin In My Car
-
actually its "I live in a car" i used to listen to that all the time back when i lived in my van...
-
http://issuu.com/scion/docs/garage_zine_vol-02
Zine, issue #2.
Now that's fucking gross. I find this zine WAAAAAAAAAAY more offensive than the records.
Notice Brian Costello is a major contributor.
----
Also, someone gave me the Scion "zine," and it was incredibly poorly written and off base. Weird that Costello was involved...and someone else I know, can't remember.
Am I invisible over here?
There is one other name I recognized but I can't remember whom and I didn't keep the "zine."
-
while I wrote this message SSR won the Indy 500 with his Scion
-
I Live In A Scion
-
If Scion really wanted street cred they would build a Scion mobile much like the Oscar Mayer weiner mobile and let you live in it Your only duties driving it back and forth across the country dispensing RnR wisdom and one sheets of the much heard of but seldom seen cover of MRR.
Maybe you could give away Scion blankets as well to all the crust punks nay saying their glorious campaign
-
If Scion really wanted street cred they would build a Scion mobile much like the Oscar Mayer weiner mobile and let you live in it Your only duties driving it back and forth across the country dispensing RnR wisdom and one sheets of the much heard of but seldom seen cover of MRR.
Maybe you could give away Scion blankets as well to all the crust punks nay saying their glorious campaign
that's actually a great idea.
-
I'd like to get back on topic:
The best couplet in rock & roll is
"Big bottom, big bottom,
Talk about mud flaps, my girl's got 'em"
You can go back to talking about cars.
-
WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET THE THREE AMIGOS (SORIANO, ERICK HUGHES, MITCH CARDWELL) OUT OF MY DREAMSCAPE???
(http://www.muzeconnects.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/ThreeAmigos.jpg)
Well we all know which one Soriano is.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFKqr5GhcxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFKqr5GhcxQ)
-
termbro meeting 2012 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkZ9B45PZMs)
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFKqr5GhcxQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFKqr5GhcxQ)
Best use of a Poochinski clip 4 life.
-
i don't know much about this scene other then the time el jesus de magico I PLAYED THE BA$$ IN THAT BAND NOT BAD blew the dc snipers out of the fucking water at union pool in new york city get a room.
-
p$: i dont need money & "band kopie$" from a japanese kar company to wear TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR JEAN$ and drive a twenty five thousand dollar car DOWN HIGH $TREET BABY listening to the brainbombs figuring out what girls i want 2 ki$$ on the mouth and what girls i wanna stick a skrewdriver in their chest.
-
So close to 50 pages in now and no one has mentioned how we are holding up the Jacuzzi Boys, Hunx & His Punx, the Black Lips, Sex Beet who were awful and opened for Human Eye, and the dude from the Deadly Snakes playing solo as the vanguard of totally authentic "underground" punk culture....the kind that can't be bought or sold.
-
You're right, but that has been mentioned a couple times, most recently by Mark Beef.
-
This is way more awesome than pimping the Scion.
http://www.bruisecruisefestival.com/
And pictures of the onboard douchedom is even more awesome.
http://www.villagevoice.com/slideshow/brooklyn-indie-kids-at-sea-on-miamis-bruise-cruise-32672109/
-
You're right, but that has been mentioned a couple times, most recently by Mark Beef.
It is just really hard for me to live in a world where I know that underground bands like the Strange Boys and Natural Child, who I consider to be unassailable pillars of punk rock ethics on par with the Penny Rimbauds and Jorge from the Casualties of the world, can be so easily bought off by a car company for a mere pittance. I weep for the death of punk.
THEY'VE ALREADY TAKEN NATURAL CHILD!!!!!! WHO WILL BE NEXT?????????
-
good attempt at trying to get these sods to cough up the names of the new vanguard so they can be exploited, lackey
back to the Vice salt mines with ye
-
(http://sweetscientist.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/garth-reebok.jpg)
It's like people only do these things because they can.
-
p$: i dont need money & "band kopie$" from a japanese kar company to wear TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR JEAN$ and drive a twenty five thousand dollar car DOWN HIGH $TREET BABY listening to the brainbombs figuring out what girls i want 2 ki$$ on the mouth and what girls i wanna stick a skrewdriver in their chest.
-
PUNK IS OFFICIALLY DEAD. THE BAD SPORTS HAVE DONE A SCION GARAGE 7".
Kevin, you can now shut the whole thread down.
-
WHO WILL SAVE PUNK?????
(http://www.flameshovel.com/zcart/musicimages/mannmen/photo/cover2.jpg)
THE MANNEQUIN MEN!!!!! ONLY ON SCION RECORD 7" RECORDS!!!!!
-
NEW FROM FLAMESHOVEL SCION RECORDS!
IN Chicago.
-
How will I ever read MRR again now that I know they won't touch Kid Congo Powers & The Pink Monkey Birds??!?!?!?!?!?!!?!
Who is next....??? AMEBIX?????????!!!!!$@#%
-
is that a girl?
-
is that a girl?
No mate.
It's Beck.
Try and keep up.
-
we need to have a meeting about the imminent collapse of punk asap.....send out the feelers we need to get everyone back to space mountain within the week. Tell all the crusty kids this supersedes food not bombs feeding people, hell this is even bigger than the cat liberation party that we were gonna throw to bring about change in Greg Ginn's apartment.
-
Who is next....??? AMEBIX?????????!!!!!$@#%
"THIS METALLIC CRUST IS NOT UNLIKE EARLY ******"
-
This past week, I went to Orange, CA for business. The rent-a-car we got was a Scion. I don't have many punk points, in fact, I have a desk job, a family, and I listen to Steely Dan on occasion. The Scion was just what was offered, and that's what we drove to the office for our focus group. My company paid for another company to lend us another company's product that puts out records for speculatively questionable principals.
Should I:
A. have refused the Scion outright, and complained to the clerk that it was "killing the scene", and demanded an upgrade.
or
B. write scion a letter, thanking them for making themselves available for non-punks like myself to support more bands.
Thanks in advance for your future guidelines. P.S., what do I win, if I ever have enough punk points?
-
PPS, if SSR ever listens to Box of Feelings, I will voluntarily pee my pants.
-
from: MAXIMUM ROCKNROLL to: ME
show details 10:24 AM (18 hours ago)
Hey,
I am emailing you because Maximum Rocknroll #338 for the month of July is in
the works and I wanted to see if you were interested in reserving an ad
space. Here is what is in store? A scene report from Gatillazo, Mexico, the
first installment of the history of punk in the Czech republic, interviews
with female fronted Grind core Cokskar from Minneapolis, garage maniacs
Useless Eaters, German HC Family Man, Japanese legends Zouo, Tempe AZ?s own
Gai worshippers Night Gaun, D-beat ragers Lost Tribe, Australian noise mess
Kromosom, and Mexican punk meets chaotic garage Inservibles. If you would
like to reserve an ad space, please let us know by the 15th and we can make
it happen.
Thanks!
Mariam
-------------------------------------------------------------
The ad deadline is the 15th of every month. The magazine comes out around
the 15th of the following month, and the cover date is the month after that
(e.g., June 15 would be the deadline for the August issue, which hits the
streets mid-July).
We only accept ads from bands/labels/publishers that we would cover in our
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Send your check or money order made out to Maximum Rocknroll (with your ad
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Full pg -- 10" high by 7 1/2" wide -- $400 ($420 via PayPal)
1/2 pg -- 5" high by 7 1/2" wide -- $165 ($173.25 by paypal)
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www.maximumrocknroll.com
Files/PayPal payment to: ads@maximumrocknroll.com
from: ME to: MRR
show details 4:48 AM (3 minutes ago)
Does MRR accept ads with nudity?
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does MRR accept ads where you are trying to get underage girls to fellate you for merch?
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SCION!
(http://i.imgur.com/g3k4X.jpg)
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http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=scionist
Can't believe Jay was a Scionist!
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Mommy what is this!?!
I'm scared!
(http://xavierwynn.com/moopies/images/01/SmokinCock.gif)
You have just been sent a personal message by Mother on terminal-boredom.com.
The message they sent you was:
Dont post pictures of your junk or anyone else's for that matter.
Fer real? Since when is really a no nudity policy on termbo? And who wrote that ^? and did you log out of your other account to log in as mother to tell me that?
Here is the nudity policy: We don't wanna have to put an age requirement thing for the site so no penises, no anuses, no vaginas, no fucking, etc. A butt cheek is a butt cheek. No one cares about that. It is a blanket policy, just as the "don't post share files" is a blanket policy. Besides this is a music message board. No one cares about your penis, especially when calling it a "salami" is just adding to an atmosphere of hype that made all of you cream over the Vivian Girls and WAVVES before it was not cool to do so anymore. If you don't like the nudity policy you are very much welcome to find your way over to VLV or BCO and post pictures of your penis. They could use a chuckle.
you're a cockmaster.