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Terminal Boardumb => Music Shit => Topic started by: Maltodextrin on September 18, 2006, 03:06:58 PM
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This is the tracklisting for Rhino's comp CD meant to accompany the book/film. Pretty solid stuff, obviously we could all name certain things we'd put on (Dead Kennedys, Zero Boys, Misfits, Poison Idea, Minutemen, Husker Du, to cite only the bigger names?.....hopefully just licensing issues, because they could have fit twice the music on here with no lowering of quality), but it's still a good introduction for people that haven't been paying attention otherwise. Definitely surprised to see Minor Threat here, though, since Rhino is a subsidiary of Warner and I would've thought pigs would fly before Ian would allow any of his bands to appear on a major label-affiliated release. Maybe the members voted on it? That's about the only way I can see it happening.
Black Flag - "Nervous Breakdown"
Middle Class - "Out of Vogue"
Bad Brains - "Pay To Cum"
D.O.A. - "Fucked Up Ronnie"
Circle Jerks - "Red Tape"
Minor Threat - "Filler"
MDC - "I Remember"
Untouchables - "Nic Fit"
Gang Green - "Kill a Commie"
The Freeze - "Boston Not L.A."
Jerry's Kids - "Straight Jacket"
SS Decontrol - "Boiling Point"
Void - "Who Are You/Time To Die"
Scream - "Came Without Warning"
Negative Approach - "Friend or Foe"
Articles Of Faith - "Bad Attitude"
Die Kreuzen - "Think For Me"
Battalion Of Saints - "My Minds Diseased"
7 Seconds - "I Hate Sports"
Big Boys - "Brickwall"
Really Red - "I Was a Teenage Fuckup"
The Adolescents - "I Hate Children"
YDI - "Enemy for Life"
D.R.I. - "Runnin' Around"
Cro-Mags - "Don't Tread on Me"
Flipper - "Ha Ha Ha"
PS I would buy this on vinyl if it was reasonably priced.
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I wouldn't put DK on this....the Fix yeh...DKs no
If yer gonna represent SF, gotta go with Sick Pleasure or Code of Honor.
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I wouldn't put DK on this....the Fix yeh...DKs no
If yer gonna represent SF, gotta go with Sick Pleasure or Code of Honor.
Nah, I don't really even like DKs but they were THE biggest and most important American hardcore band, even if they and their rep haven't aged as well as Flag, Minor Threat, Bad Brains etc. You can't talk about an overview of first-wave USHC and leave them off.
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this is just that same Rhino comp they put out years ago called Loud Fast Rules right?
the hardcore version of their powerpop/punk comps
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No shit. To not put the DKs on a US HC retrospective is complete retarded and betrays the history of the music. The big fault of that American Hardcore book is what he leaves out or short shrifts. He makes one passing mention of MRR, a slight so insanely wrong that it makes the rest of the book little more than an excersize in nostalgia. I am pretty sure Malto will agree with me in that you totally have to divorce your thoughts about the bands politics when you do a historical review of that music. It is funny that the people who want to censor the political bands/zines, write them out of history are the same ones who claim to be apolitical or not pushing a political agenda. I mean you dont have to agree or praise the DKs but they were THE band responsible for internationalizing hardcore and, with Black Flag & Minor Threat, creating a national scene.
Rhino's comps are usually excellent. I think if there are any oversights (like the DKs, Misfits, etc) it is due to not being able to nail the rights.
As much as I love Sick Pleasure, at the time they were a footnote even within their own scene.
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I was thinking quality over influence, but I understand both of yer points.
That being said, why put the Untouchables on this....cause Ian's lil brother was in the band. Talk about a footnote.
This comp needs more Midwest.
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yeah, the Midwest isn't very well repped on here at all. Still though, young kids picking this up and hearing these bands for the first time should get a nice kick in the ass. Cool that they included Flipper and start off with "Nervous Breakdown" too.
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I was thinking quality over influence, but I understand both of yer points.
That being said, why put the Untouchables on this....cause Ian's lil brother was in the band. Talk about a footnote.
This comp needs more Midwest.
While I think the Fix were a far, far stronger band than the Necros, I'd definitely say the latter should be on here for sheer historical importance as the crucial midwest hardcore band.
As for Untouchables-- the dawn of Dischord, one of the first straight edge bands, a really early example of the pure hardcore punk that would make DCHC so definitively important to the American punk scene of the '80's...I probably wouldn't have thought to pick it, but it's definitely a defensible choice.
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But why the Cro-Mags. That is one I dont understand. And YDI?
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Cro-Mags is a pretty important/good choice actually. Shows how NYHC differed from most other scenes, and the direction HC was heading in after the book's cutoff date of 1986. Surprised Agnostic Front didn't make it on though.
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and not that those two bands are the bands I'd most prefer to listen to out of NY, I'd take Nihilistics or Urban Waste anyday - but as far as importance goes....
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Rhino's always been great at making good comps for the uninitiated. The first time I ever heard bands like Wire, Suicide, The Fall, Heartbreakers, The Zeros, etc. etc. was through their D.I.Y. series that my local, small town library had. And, yeah, I'd buy this too, on vinyl, if only to hear a few of bands on it that I've never heard before.
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I talked to someone two days ago who was at a press screening of the movie, and he says the film has no mention at all of the Misfits, DKs, or Negative Approach.
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I was thinking quality over influence, but I understand both of yer points.
That being said, why put the Untouchables on this....cause Ian's lil brother was in the band. Talk about a footnote.
This comp needs more Midwest.
While I think the Fix were a far, far stronger band than the Necros, I'd definitely say the latter should be on here for sheer historical importance as the crucial midwest hardcore band.
As for Untouchables-- the dawn of Dischord, one of the first straight edge bands, a really early example of the pure hardcore punk that would make DCHC so definitively important to the American punk scene of the '80's...I probably wouldn't have thought to pick it, but it's definitely a defensible choice.
Why Untouchables and not Youth Brigade, SOA...Deadline...Red C....hell Teen Idles have more a claim.
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i remember reading somewhere that ian mackaye said the untouchables were what influenced him to have a hardcore sound. before that, the teen idles were just average punk rock, but after he heard them he wanted to be fast and "dangerous". not sure if that means they should be on here, but still....
and 'big ups' to putting that gang green track on there. those 'boston not l.a.' tracks are my favorite hardcore songs ever.
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Maybe part of the reason 'Nic Fit' is on there is because a million people own Sonic Youth's cover version of it and have never heard the original so why not?
If Philly's gotta be represented why wouldn't you use F.O.D., who not only are probably still going but had a more unique sound than YDI anyway.
Cro-Mags but no Agnostic Front? I agree, that's really backward--shit, they coulda/shouda put a Heart Attack track on there since Jesse Malin has gone on to some solo success and HA never wrote a bad song.
'Brickwall' is practically a throwaway track for Big Boys--the shortest, most non-descript thing they ever recorded and not really representative of everything they were at all, I'd say. Christ, 'We're Not In It To Lose' is practically the greatest anthem ever written about punk rock.
No Zero Boys OR Toxic Reasons???? No JFA? No Suicidal Tendencies? No C.O.C.? It's a great track listing overall but I think these bands were definitely big enough to have been included.
-Ryan
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Bad Brains is what influenced Minor Threat and Heart Attack(who I likve) have a number of not good songs.
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The flaws in these kinds of retrospectives are the result of one of two things: 1 the skill/knowledge of the compiler or 2. what they can liscense. The reason early KBD & Bloodstains comps are so good is because they are bootlegs and no one went through the process of contacting the labels and/or bands to get permission to rerelease the stuff. Rhino has to liscense all the songs on their releases and if they cant get permission they cant release it. All it takes is one band member saying no or thinking they are due $10,000 for their track and you can say goodbye to let us guess the Misfits. Or perhaps the original label has a deal with someone else that prohibits them from liscensing songs by a certain band. On that level things get difficult.
Soul Jazz does plenty of retrospective comps and the ones that are good are the ones that they've liscensed good stuff for. The New Orleans funk comps are great. The Philly soul comps have serious flaws because they couldnt get any Gamble & Huff stuff or Philadelphia International. The NY salsa comps are really spotty because they didnt get the rights to Fania, Cotique, or Tico (which is like doing a LA 77 punk comp without permission to use music on Slash, What, and Dangerfield).
I am sure everyone of us could list a 30 song US HC comp that would kill but I doubt any of us could get the rights to all the songs. It is pretty amazing that Rhino was able to get all the shit they got, especially any of the stuff that was on Frontier and the Bad Brains cuts - crazy people all of them.
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I'd like to see a hardcore comp that Steve compiles.
Dangerfield? Rodney loved the Bags....Avengers too.
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I'd like to see a hardcore comp that Steve compiles.
Me too.
I think it's great that the Middle Class made it on here. And in all your bitching about absentees, how have none of you fuckers mentioned VOID or Angry Samoans or the Dicks?
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Voids is on there.
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...well I'll be... how I missed that I don't know.
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Yup, and I'd say the Samoans are more straight up punk than hardcore - especially according to the book. Samoans hated any association with HC that they got for their 2nd LP.
Despite the Midwest gripe and no Poison Idea (Necros and Zero Boys are sadly missing as has been noted) - it's actually pretty surprising how many things this comp got right for being a major release associated with a movie - and as Scott mentioned, having to deal with licensing issues. Void, Kreuzen, Jerrys Kids, etc, etc.
And yeah The Dicks probably should've make it on....JFA....eh, love the band - but not sure they're really that important. same with FOD.
The best compliment this comp could get is that it isn't totally getting torn apart here - we could all nitpick all day, but really, this thing wasn't made for anyone who reads this board anyhow. well maybe for steve....(sorry couldnt resist, troy made the first joke)
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Yeah, and "I Was a Teenage Fuck-up"!
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Yeah, exactly, that was an unexpected but nice choice.
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The flaws in these kinds of retrospectives are the result of one of two things: 1 the skill/knowledge of the compiler or 2. what they can liscense. The reason early KBD & Bloodstains comps are so good is because they are bootlegs and no one went through the process of contacting the labels and/or bands to get permission to rerelease the stuff. Rhino has to liscense all the songs on their releases and if they cant get permission they cant release it. All it takes is one band member saying no or thinking they are due $10,000 for their track and you can say goodbye to let us guess the Misfits. Or perhaps the original label has a deal with someone else that prohibits them from liscensing songs by a certain band. On that level things get difficult.
Soul Jazz does plenty of retrospective comps and the ones that are good are the ones that they've liscensed good stuff for. The New Orleans funk comps are great. The Philly soul comps have serious flaws because they couldnt get any Gamble & Huff stuff or Philadelphia International. The NY salsa comps are really spotty because they didnt get the rights to Fania, Cotique, or Tico (which is like doing a LA 77 punk comp without permission to use music on Slash, What, and Dangerfield).
I am sure everyone of us could list a 30 song US HC comp that would kill but I doubt any of us could get the rights to all the songs. It is pretty amazing that Rhino was able to get all the shit they got, especially any of the stuff that was on Frontier and the Bad Brains cuts - crazy people all of them.
The other thing to keep in ind is that this is meant as companion to a film-- so if someone from the Untouchables is interviewed, or a bunch of other early harDCore punks keep citing Untouchables as the band that really influenced them, then it makes sense to keep them. A band's rep a quarter century later, or the quality of their recordings in context of hindsight, doesn't necessarily indicate their importance as these things were happening, which had just as much to do with timing, luck, the dedication/charisma of the members or their live power.
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Yup, and I'd say the Samoans are more straight up punk than hardcore - especially according to the book. Samoans hated any association with HC that they got for their 2nd LP.
I definitely disagree with this. I've read members talk quite proudly of the fact that they put out one of the best HARDCORE records ever-- and "Back from Samoa" is, in the most elemental musical sense, as definitive a hardcore record as has ever existed.
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I'd like to see a hardcore comp that Steve compiles.
Dangerfield? Rodney loved the Bags....Avengers too.
Actually, I've got it on good authority that Rodney was more into Black Randy than anyone else on Dangerfield Records.
As for the first part of your question, your wish is my command.
STEVE'S HARDCORE COMP: IE THE ONLY HARDCORE SONGS STEVE WANTS TO OWN
1) Middle Class "Out of Vouge" EP
2) Rhino 39 first side of the first 7"
3) Black Flag "Nervous Breakdown" + "Jealous Again" EPs. I like most of Damaged too, but I don't think it would fit.
4) Circle Jerks "Deny Everything" (this is the only song by them I wish I still owned)
5) Bad Brains - Umm, something brutal from the first LP. Like "I Luv I Jah" or "Jah Calling."
6) Fix "In This Town" and the other song from that single.
That's it. Also keep in mind that I've only actually heard like half of the bands that are on the real comp being discussed here. I'm not spending my money on a genre that usually bores me when there's so much stuff I know I will like that I can't afford.
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Oh, I like the Stalin too.
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Rhino's comps are usually excellent. I think if there are any oversights (like the DKs, Misfits, etc) it is due to not being able to nail the rights.
I would assume so, I know that's why The Clash weren't on the "Anarchy in the UK" DIY compiliation.
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Oh, I like the Stalin too.
Indulge me and download the Subhumans "Firing Squad" (the Canadian hardcore band, not the vegetarian ska band from England). If you don't love it, fair enough, but I think you should-- and the inferior flip was on an early KBD, if that validates it.
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I wouldn't call "No Productivity" inferior... Its a pretty killer tune in its own right.
I think with these comps, you've gotta take into account also the Six Degrees of Separation links that need to be made in people's minds, as well.. "Nic Fit" with Sonic Youth, Scream and Flipper with Nirvana, the token NYHC song... and like Malto was saying, it probably all fits within the context of the film. I can also bet there were a lot of songs left off the CD that are in the film, as well. It happens all the time. For some reason, the Big Lebowski soundtrack CD completely omits Creedence Clearwater Revival and The Monks.
P.S. -- Malto: What's the deal with this Subhumans re-union shit? They're playing here (at a former strip club, no less) in about a month.
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Oh, I like the Stalin too.
Indulge me and download the Subhumans "Firing Squad" (the Canadian hardcore band, not the vegetarian ska band from England). If you don't love it, fair enough, but I think you should-- and the inferior flip was on an early KBD, if that validates it.
I indulged you, and I'm glad I did. "Firing Squad" is a great song for sure. Way better than "No Productivity."
Also, for the record, I like the first two DOA albums too.
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I wouldn't call "No Productivity" inferior... Its a pretty killer tune in its own right.
I think with these comps, you've gotta take into account also the Six Degrees of Separation links that need to be made in people's minds, as well.. "Nic Fit" with Sonic Youth, Scream and Flipper with Nirvana, the token NYHC song... and like Malto was saying, it probably all fits within the context of the film. I can also bet there were a lot of songs left off the CD that are in the film, as well. It happens all the time. For some reason, the Big Lebowski soundtrack CD completely omits Creedence Clearwater Revival and The Monks.
P.S. -- Malto: What's the deal with this Subhumans re-union shit? They're playing here (at a former strip club, no less) in about a month.
Hmmmm, can't say I'm a fan of "No productivity", and always kind of wondered why it was the side that got comped. Anyways, I've seen 1.2 Subhumans shows since moving out here (the first one collapsed into a depressing melee of skinhead violence during the third song....very authentically '80's, I suppose, but stupid nonetheless) and the full set was just last month. They're not embarassing or anything, just a sort of competent but far from inspiring run-through of the old songs punctuated with new songs that really sound no different to the old ones, although I doubt anything on the level of "Firing squad", "Death to the sickoids" or "Behind my smile" will be coming out of this.
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I'd like to see a hardcore comp that Steve compiles.
Dangerfield? Rodney loved the Bags....Avengers too.
Actually, I've got it on good authority that Rodney was more into Black Randy than anyone else on Dangerfield Records.
As for the first part of your question, your wish is my command.
STEVE'S HARDCORE COMP: IE THE ONLY HARDCORE SONGS STEVE WANTS TO OWN
1) Middle Class "Out of Vouge" EP
2) Rhino 39 first side of the first 7"
3) Black Flag "Nervous Breakdown" + "Jealous Again" EPs. I like most of Damaged too, but I don't think it would fit.
4) Circle Jerks "Deny Everything" (this is the only song by them I wish I still owned)
5) Bad Brains - Umm, something brutal from the first LP. Like "I Luv I Jah" or "Jah Calling."
6) Fix "In This Town" and the other song from that single.
That's it. Also keep in mind that I've only actually heard like half of the bands that are on the real comp being discussed here. I'm not spending my money on a genre that usually bores me when there's so much stuff I know I will like that I can't afford.
If you like the Fix, then there's plenty of hardcore you would probably be into.
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the movie = awesome. Lack of focus on th midwest. im drunk. sorry.
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"No Zero Boys OR Toxic Reasons???? No JFA? No Suicidal Tendencies? No C.O.C.? It's a great track listing overall but I think these bands were definitely big enough to have been included."
Suicidal Tendencies were late comers so I don't think they really fit the time period. That first record is 1985 which is when Hardcore started really turning to shit with all the metal crossover crap. I think JFA is in the same boat.
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Are you sure that first album wasn't '83? I seem to remember still being in high school when it came out.
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yeah Suicidal was '83....Im guessing licensing has to be the issue on that one. Lots of JFA stuff before 85 too...offhand, i'd guess '81 or '82 for the first EP?
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Yes, JFA records were out in 81 or 82, for sure.
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"No Zero Boys OR Toxic Reasons???? No JFA? No Suicidal Tendencies? No C.O.C.? It's a great track listing overall but I think these bands were definitely big enough to have been included."
Suicidal Tendencies were late comers so I don't think they really fit the time period. That first record is 1985 which is when Hardcore started really turning to shit with all the metal crossover crap. I think JFA is in the same boat.
Yeah, Suicidal were playing by '81 and the LP came out in '83-- and as popular as they were in the mainstream, I think they were more an anomaly than a real crucial element of the crossover.
JFA were putting out records circa '81-'82 and were about as pure and generic an American hardcore as you can get-- 100% punk with zero metal influence, so that's a weird argument. I remember mailordering their new EP circa '85 and being all disappointed that it was some odd surf/instrumental thing; even when they started evolving, it certainly wasn't toward metal.
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yeah i guess you guys are right on the dates. I always associated them as the next wave cuz I just remember seeing them in 85 on the East Coast when all the bands were going metal and doing that guitar shredding shit they did. They were more of a novelty band to me.
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I always wished JFA had a better singer--they were great musically but Brian monotone yelling really held em back. JFA's self-titled lp was the first punk record I ever stole! I gotta hear 'The Day Walt Disney Died' right NOW.
-Ryan
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Who else has seen the film...it's playing here on Sunday night...I'm sure it will be worth the $10 they're asking, but I wanna know if anyone hated it...
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It's a soundtrack of a movie based on a totally shitty book. It's gonna have problems.
I guess the soundtrack looks okay, due to the licensing rights Scott's mentioned, but especially given how bad the book was -- for what it omitted and overlooked as well as what it gave WAY too much attention to.
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I'll give you a good soundtrack.
Let them eat jelly beans LP
add to that rodney on the roq v1
mastertape v1
this is boston not LP
and flex your head
and you dont need rhino's retrospective
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There's a wall on a building in the Lower East Side that is completely covered in wheatpasted flyers for this movie. Every time I pass it, I think, "What Would Frank Discussion Do?"
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the worst thing about the movie is going to be other people telling me what hardcore is. if there was a way to edit them out and get to the footage i havent seen that would be great. like icki i have absolutely no faith in them telling the story of hardcore in a little under 2 hours, less if you count the footage. it will be as surface level as ken burns' rock & roll docu when it did single genre episodes. plus it will be what hardcore means to vic bondi, jello, henry, ian, etc AND YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY THINK. much better would be the approach penelope spheares used on Decline... interviewing the fans and people as participants, not as spokesmen for a generation. you would think 80 million years of Daid Crosby & Grace Slick telling us why 60s music was so important would be a lesson not to let the "leaders" define a movement. send me a dvd of it and i'll dub funny stuff over the interviews and you can dig on the footage.
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even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."
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i hate that shit. hate hate hate it and i am an old man. it is one of those "those old fuckers should know better than to act like their elders did to them." yes, hardcore was important but there are things going on today that in retrospect will be just as imporant. stupid fucking old people.
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even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."
It's kind of funny. If you think about it, in reality what he is saying is that he "just doesn't know" what's going on. Not to sound like a sycophant, but Tim Kerr never ever says shit like that. In fact, he always tells people who want to talk about the past that they should listen to all the great bands going on right now.
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Tim Kerr fuckin rules.
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Indeed he do. Plays a mean accordion also.
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Well, that is cuz Tim has been involved with projects that werent his own. Really, if you do a label or recording, it doesnt matter how old you get, you are exposed to current stuff. I mean you can still have an ear for the past, but if it is stuck there then you wind up doing some lame ass label like TKO. For all his faults, Jello has a like outlook. Its too bad he has a taste for prog metal, but at least the dude tries.
Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to look at in regards to 80s hardcore, things like it being the first suburban music movement, whether its major effect was cultural, political or economic, how the indie label boom of the 90s and the ethical business model many labels followed had its seeds in hardcore, how it became popular without being mainstream and how it reacted when the mainstream invaded it, etc. However, those things are best examined in text not in a documentary in which the biggest hook is band footage.
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Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to look at in regards to 80s hardcore, things like it being the first suburban music movement...
Wouldn't you consider the mid'60s garage scene a fairly suburban thing? - maybe not movement though due to the lack of communication beyond records. Jeff Bale used to try to bring up comparisons between the two. John Brannon called HC the blues of the suburbs too...
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Agreed, but I also agree with the general sentiment regarding both hardcore & old people. I go through phases where I'm not as interested in new stuff, but I know that's an internal thing, and not necessarily a true statement on what's currently going on. Lots of new bands are as exciting as the old stuff. You can't tell me the Black Lips (for example) should be brushed off because they're making music in 2006. They're 50 times the band as some garage unit in the mid-60s that made one good single and popped out a buncha mediocre covers, despite what your garage nazis might say. It's definitely harder to put out a record for the history books now, but I'm happy as hell to play a Tyvek or KK/BBQ record, and even happier that I actually get to see them live (which is the true test of a great band).
This is what old people generally resolve themselves to in all areas of thought and expression, and I'm not having it. Kyle, Scott, Ray, and others here are good examples of people who still "get it." It's especially funny watching 22 year old get jaded. It happens to nearly everyone.
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even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."
considering the following :
he was a bandwagon jumper for both punk and hc
he had/has a political agenda to push
he's an academic know it all
the last of the aof material
his post aof albums
the touring of europe well after aof was done as aof
his shitty column writing
people like vic bondi should shut the fuck up about anything relevent to hardcore. period.
the problem with these "documentaries" is that they only get the blowhards who want to be heard and make nice soundbites that match the filmmaker's perspective.
blush is a dried out old turd who feels that no trend was far more relevent than anything else post 81. he's incredibly smug thruout the book. i found it to be the print version of "when i was your age i had to dig thru 80 miles of 10 feet deep snow with a spork and crawl thru razor wire to get to school".
notice how much of it is written in a "you just wouldn't understand because i was there. see it says so on pages 3-12, 28-36, etc". of course he wants to have clods who are going to dismiss the post 86 to now waves.
i think that some people he interviewed had great intentions but his "artistic vision" got in the way. i'm apprehensive to say the least about seeing the movie.
that said, i think this was a huge mistake on his behalf if he intended to make it a swan song to his youth and the culture because it will only bring about a new wave of cretins with guitars... woo!
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haha, i was gonna joke earlier, at least "no trend" aint on the comp.
and scott - i gotta call you out - you talk about MRR a lot and bitch and cry how it ain't involved. MRR was an excellent resource - for INTERNATIONAL hardcore. not american hc. the (admitedly biased) writer called out tim yo for being into politics, is he wrong? MRR was an excellent resource, but I dont think it was a major thing. Of course, MRR had some influence....but did it really influence the american hardcore scene? In the time period he covered at least. His book is fine.....i think you all protest too much - I wanna see the movie.
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and IMO the book is fine.
yeah yeah it has typos, it has shit missing.
goddamn!
i'd like to see one of you write it, or myself.
get over it! its a book about hardcore - condensed into a few hundreed pages. so what?
get over it......if youre that pissed, suck me off , alright, i'll fill ya in on the "TRUE" hc story, and your girl will be a bit full a'right?
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and nah, write me! i'm not gonna bitch and whine about MRR, yeah i'm sure the first four years of that zine would be a thrilling read (82-86). Yeah thats just dying to be read. Who cant wait for the first the first 4 yrs of MRR to be re-printed, i'm sure that'll be fun to read! I'd like to see it, its probably the most boring horseshit anyone has read, with some scene reports and columns thrown in....
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rr - MRR was an excellent resource both nationall & internationally at different periods. From the beginning it was the first national zine to link local scenes with scene reports. Flipside had scene reports but London & NYC. I tried to write a scene report of Nor Cal for them and they rejected it saying they dont care about Nor Cal. Fine. But MRR cared about Ohio, Idaho, Indiana, Virginia, etc. Tim, Jeff, Jello, Ruth et al also actively sought out bands nationwide to interview & review. All you have to do is look at the early issues to see that. Sure the early issues arent as good as the early mid international ones but that is because the zine was in its infancy. I had penpals across the US because of MRR scene reports & ads in the back and got many a record from mail order thanks to MRR. As it grew as a zine it became international and did the same thing it did nationally, it brought in voices from other regions. It also became more political and alienated many that were signer-ons on the early less political issues (Tesco, John Crawford, etc). It had the unfortunate roll of spreading gilman influence pop punk to the masses inthe late 80s but during the 90s it was the clearing house for the garage punk revival, though no one except denkinger seems to understand that.
One more thing in regards to MRR: it was the first American punk zine to get effective national distribution. while other zines, most notably flipside, did find their was cross country MRR pretty much lead the way. this was because of ruth schwatrz's connections with Tower records and a guy named Doug Biggert who headed up their magazine division. Before the first issue came out MRR had lined up national distribution through Tower and their distro arm, Bayside, which put MRR in hundreds of Towers and mom & pop stores. In this sense MRR pioneered zine distribution.
Please note all of what I am refering to in regards to MRR has nothing to do with politics. Politically I think they had an influence but more in the sense of puching and encouraging DIY economics than any one issue. Certainly that is where the influence was felt strongest. Also never mentioned is that MRR provided seed money for a lot of projects: Gilman, Blacklist mail order, Epicenter, which would have been impossible without MRR funding. Add to that that at the end of the year, at least during Tim's days' whatever profit the zine made would get sent back to advertisers and given to people doing labels and zines as a sort of grant. This was always on the hush hush because Tim didnt want to draw attention it. One last thing about MRR. It wasnt until the mid to late 80s that MRR was dominated by Tim. Before that it was Jello, Jeff Bale, Ruth Scwartz, Ray Farrell, Tim and a couple other people. Jello dropped out first. But even into the early 90s Bale had a signficant influence (as did Martin Sprouse). In any case, however perceived MRR's poltics were never only one voice, at least not until Jackie Pritchard got a hold of it (and was run out).
sgg - as far as 60s garage punk being suburb and, yes, it was but it was also urban. this is more of an arguement over city/urban planning & land use than anything else. suburbs then werent the autonomous areas that they were post vietnam, when suburbs surplanted cities as centers of population. during the 60s burbs were still in their infancy and often just blocks away from the urban core, not what we think of as burbs now. so perhaps i should amend it to "primarily suburburn" or "dominently suburban".
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Couldn't one also argue HC was dominantly suburban? A lot of bands claim a city but really lived in the outskirts.
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In any case, however perceived MRR's poltics were never only one voice, at least not until Jackie Pritchard got a hold of it (and was run out).
Scott-- was that meant to read "and Jeff Bale was run out", although I know that was a bit before Jackie came along? I've been buying MRR since 1985 and have never missed an issue, but Bale's firing was the end of the mag as any source of interesting politics is concerned. Now it's a good place to read about records and ignore whatever hungover identity politics cud is being peddled in the laughable "news" section. Bale had an acerbic, small-L libertarian perspective that was far closer to a natural punk rock worldview than the sensitive pseudo-left posturing that now monopolizes both MRR and "political" punk as a whole. I've got a letter about it in the new issue (sparked by their horror at a smaller fanzine talking about Islam in the way we talk about Christianity), which I'm promised will included a response from the mag.
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Scott - yes I agree man MRR was important, etc. It did a lot of good over the years, I'm glad its still around even if I dont pick it up (Out with A Bang is on the cover this month I think, might have to get that.....interview is on their myspace.....RIDICULOUS) - You talk about scene reports, the most important impact MRR had was reporting things in other countries, and comps like "welcome to 1984". Yes , it also did cover local scenes, etc - but scenes in that day were divided and into their own deal. Midwest wasnt Boston, which wasn't NYC, which wasnt DC. And thats a good thing. And thats where the book was coming from. He gave MRR a mention, as well he should have. I think the dude gets too much shit , for just writing a book about HC....I remember being 14, and thumbin thru classifieds in MRR.....great zine, even if it aint always a good read - it is an institution - but I dont know that deserves a major place in the book.
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i still think MRR was much more important than a mention simply because it was the first national institution within punk rock. all the zines before that were local focus first, with some national distro (NY Rocker, Flipside). MRR nationalized things and helped create networks that one could tour on and tape trade, etc. Pre-internationalization I was trading my shitty HC band's tapes for stuff from bands all over. I've got great tapes from Deranged Diction (Jeff Ament of Green River/Pearl Jam), Blight, Ring 13, Damage, and other "no name" bands simply through trading addresses I found in the back of MRR. And I am just one of a thousand. The national penpal network, with MRR as a hub, served as the base of the international one (and the unreleased stuff I have banked from those days: Subhumans (uk), Riistytyt (simon help me...), and names that escape me). Also pre MRR record distribution was not great and there were a scant number of mail orders, but still no nationwide zine to advertise your wares. MRR served as the place to find out what was currently available, especially good if you didnt live in a big city, colelge town or a place with a tower records. i know the record buyer at Tower and at a place called the Beat would comb MRR for new releases and use it as a guide to what to carry. Again pre-international. I really doubt that without MRR i would have been able to stroll into the local record store and buy master tape, mixed nuts dont crack, and countless other great regional HC comps. just wouldnt have happened.
so for blush to gloss over MRR shows more his hate for the rag than anything else. fine, hate it. i hate crossover but if i wrote a book on HC i wouldnt leave it out or gloss it over. too important. problem with AMER HC the book is it claims to a THE history of the music and it is not. now that could be the publisher's claim, but blush write with a tone of authority.
simon - i dont know the whats and wheres about Bale's departure. i do think it was cowardly of him to turn his barrels towards MRR after Tim died when it was his & Tim's riff that caused him to leave. I agree that Bale - when he was readable - was more thought provoking politically than anyone else there. I think there were two other people who wrote for MRR who could write politics good: Larry Livermore and yours truely. All three never wrote the party line, when it came to politics and none wrote the unreadable alphabet soup-commie sect crap you get from assholes like Lefty Hooligan or the endless anarcho-sloganeering that currently dominates it. I dont bitch about it because, besides Lefty, it is a bunch of twentys cutting their teeth. fine. they need a place to do it. i am sad that it lacks any imagination. anyway i stopped paying to MRR's politics when I turned 18.
for the record, i dont read the thing nowadays. sure i look at the reviews, ryan & carolyns top tens, & mitch's collumn but the mag is so far from what i envision punk rock to be and is perhaps the most musically conservative rag around. years ago i went to a end of the year staff meeting, filled to the gills with tequilla, and berated the assembled that if MRR was really punk they would put Caroliner on the cover. I am pretty sure it came out "and you think you are punk well punk is not you fuck caroliner rules woooooooooo!!!!" and i was looked at like "who is that hairy creep." but i took a stand. and i still think Caroliner is more punk than anything that appears in the pages of MRR.
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"i still think Caroliner is more punk than anything that appears in the pages of MRR."
Agreed there.
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it was the clearing house for the garage punk revival, though no one except denkinger seems to understand that.
Huh? How could people who were around back then not get that? I mean MRR is where I found out about Teengenerate, Registrators, Rip Offs, Supercharger, Mummies, Headcoats, Devil Dogs, New Bomb Turks, and all of that kind of stuff. Not to mention lesser known stuff like Radio Shanghai and the Wanders. I haven't read MRR in a long time for the reasons Scott cited, but MRR is always something that I'll look back on fondly since it played such a big role in exposing me to the music that I'm still into to this day. That I'm looked at as the most musically conservative person around these parts might have something to do with that as well! All it would take would be like two columnists besides Mitch that were worth reading, and I'd probably start buying MRR again.
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I read about The Spaceshits in MRR almost a year before ever seeing anything about them in Montreal papers. Didn't even know they were from here until Trickknee told me.
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And I think MRR in the last year or two has been WAY better than at any point since like 1997-98 (when did Tim Yo die again?). Billy Childish was on the cover a few months back, there was a great interview with Mark E. Smith in the July or August one (same issue had a fucking scene report for Usbekistan!!) and the general quality of the bands interviewed has improved exponentially. There was a time when you'd open MRR and the only bands you'd find interviewed/reviewed/discussed in columns were fucking Beer City Records or TKO Records bands.
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The Zero Boys wrote the best catchy songs of all bands discussed here.
I've only heard about 1/4 of the stuff on the soundtrack. Looks like I need to do my homework. But I'm not much for hc beyond Black Flag, Minor Threat, Bad Brains and all the bigger bands. Flipper, Fix 7" are great. How come Bad Brains does the Jah stuff? They're touted as the best hc band but 1/2 their stuff is slow Jamaican dittys which I was never that into. Symarip is a much cooler band for that kind of stuff. Anyone seen the Bad Brains dvd? I think it's new. It's a CBGB's show from '82, with YouTube though I wonder if it's even worth looking into it.
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Its a great set. My friend has this on VHS. They play "At The Movies" (my favorite Bad Brains song by a long shot).
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'at the movies ' is great. this dvd is from '82? id like to see all the '79 'pre-dreadlock' era on DVD. they were definitely playing a few steps slower then...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pGuClLVjvzY
also...i wouldnt say half of their stuff is reggae reggae....just a few scattered songs.
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And I think MRR in the last year or two has been WAY better than at any point since like 1997-98 (when did Tim Yo die again?).
definitely...i noticed being surprised a few times by recent covers. i was surprised especially seeing the carbonas on the cover last summer. so it was the first mrr i purchased in years based on that alone. but i was always more into Flipside. they had nice, glossy covers. it definitely seemed like a "looser" operation....but that resulted in albums getting reviewed that had been out a year sometimes, though.
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My MRR collection goes from the first issue til about 1985 and then from about 90 on. I've taken out the early issues from time to time when I am on a record hunt and want to see the reviews. But that is pretty much all they are worth to me for right now.
I have Flipsides from the third issue til about 1984 and none from the 90s. The 90s version was worthless to me, but the early issues are fantastic and always get pulled out to reread interviews. The reviews are too muddled to be helpful, though. Oh and the cartoons ruled.
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i can't understand why you don't like DK, their sound is pretty good... and i like Biafra's singin
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Tim and Jeff were as close as you can get. Jeff spent that summer - like every summer - in San Francisco in his boardinghouse making trips over to MRR. Jeff was there when Tim needed him. There was an open search to fill Tim’s shoes with younger, new people at the time. After, Jeff decided to start Hit List. MRR was vital and strong – thanks to a lot of hard work since day one - and Jeff felt it could use a little friendly competitive nudge. Eventually Hit List got swallowed up, or consumed itself, or whatever heavy handed blah blah you wanna say. Jeff isn’t stupid. It was fun while it lasted. MRR is still vital and strong and better than ever. What have we got? One less Hit List out there with one less place for all those contributors to go. What did that leave MRR? Some other nifty shoes they could fill that maybe they weren’t thinking about or wouldn’t have otherwise if Hit List hadn’t goofed on us all. Hopefully all that talk made them – and the rest of us - listen and pay attention to something at least a little different. To contributors that were, maybe, mostly a bit of the older school. Cuz people starting magazines, just as the magazines themselves, are eventually going to pass away. Maybe Hit List was a guy’s way to personally grieve? Helluva wake.
Hardcore has such a strong footing because of the efforts of regular, reliable publications like MRR and lesser to do with a single book written about it. Still, in most cases, both are equally noble and always self-defining…like the music they cover. Rock ‘n’ roll, or whatever have you, other than what pap you might find in print in Rolling Stones et al, has got to fight a bit to get heard. Maybe a healthy sense of competitive nature isn’t the right way to do it…but that has less to do with personal politics and more to do with the continuity of the kicking-against-the-pricks spirit of r-n-r. More so, I think Hit List was trying to honestly, ironically, and self-consciously tap into the same spirit that started MRR in the first place: Having the guts to start something as impossibly doomed from the get-go as a print zine. You gotta have that kind of mind frame and sense of humility to really make it work. And that that statement and/or point in particular was meant to be a reminder and, frankly, an inspiration to new blood. Some people fucking listened. Eh. Might as well rave on sixties records, powerpop, or what have you while you got the chance. Next week it’s always going to be some douche bag raving about dog shit.