terminal-boredom.com
Terminal Boardumb => Non-Music Shit => Topic started by: hillside wrangler on January 20, 2013, 05:39:20 PM
-
Re: Parker flick, I think it's a stupid idea, but really, it's no more offensive or puzzling than the advent of any other wad of CGI glue-factory garbage with a budget equal to the GDP of Sierra Leone taking the title of a legitimate work and dragging it through two hours of scenery-chewing and a script that sounds like it was generated by a Mission Impossible algorithm. The finished product might as well have nothing to do with Stark at all. In this film, "Parker" will be someone who says things like "I'm an automatic kind of guy" and there'll be a moment of comic relief when Jennifer Lopez accidentally shoots a mailbox. My dad will see it, like it, and compare it favorably to The Bourne Identity -- the apparent gold standard of dad-friendly action flicks -- and fall asleep in his recliner imagining, in that green land between waking and sleeping, that he's Parker, sliding across the floor with guns in both hands, spraying bullets like champagne.
I could be talking out of my ass since I see about two new movies every year, and there might be some decent fare I missed recently, but I think it'd be pretty hard to make a good film out of a Stark/Westlake, Chandler, Macdonald, etc. book inside the studio system these days. Existential blockbuster is an oxymoron; Midnight Cowboy would sink like a stone in '13. The Graduate would be trounced by Saw 5. And so on. (Drive may be the closest thing in recent memory, and it sucked.) If The Long Goodbye were made today it'd have to be an action flick: Elliott Gould ripping through the Hollywood hills in a series of expensive dentless stolen cars and Milla Jovovich as Eileen Wade. The cat would be a dog, Marty Augustine would be Ryan Gosling and Marlowe's half-naked she-cult neighbors would be lawyers who looked like Amanda Bynes. Depressing.
Not entirely sure what constitutes "neo-noir", but my vote's for Miller's Crossing.
-
I could make a great film adaptation of at least 2 MacDonald novels
-
Paul Newman as Lew Harper! 2 of 'em, both okay.
-
Drowning Pool is directed by Rosenberg.
-
I've got the fucking flu. I feel like shit. Last thing I need to be doing is arguing dumb shit w/ the old Muppets up in the gallery.
It's your thread, kid. Have a blast.
-
I think what happened is Erick Hugheshaw watched the trailer for Memento and deleted the thread.
-
I was just trying to explain to a colleague how he and I were becoming like the old Muppets in the balcony. "You kids call that writing!" Nothing.
-
The Drowning Pool rules. Newman had a good run, and he made some good fake Oreos.
-
I also like everything I've ever read by Westlake, including his shitty '90s paperbacks. Economic writer, but still lingual and vivid.
-
Third post: As I mentioned in the film thread on here before, I tried to watch Trouble in Mind recently, since I'd read that it was a "great slice of '80s noir," and it was the worst movie I'd seen since whenever that was. Horrendous.
About to start on Simenon's Red Lights. Not technically noir, but the sentiment's etc.
Hell, let's just make this a noir thread.
-
I like Westlake's Dortmunder novels. Humorous, often broadly drawn, a little formulaic as the series went on. Redford played the D character in The Hot Rock.
-
Still haven't seen that one in its entirety, for some reason.
Is anyone on here a fan of Hawkes? I've never met another person who's read and appreciated his novels, except for an ex-girlfriend. I think he was brilliant.
-
Third post: As I mentioned in the film thread on here before, I tried to watch Trouble in Mind recently, since I'd read that it was a "great slice of '80s noir," and it was the worst movie I'd seen since whenever that was. Horrendous.
I actually really loved that when I saw it but I think seeing it as a noir is misleading. It's basically just a continuation of Rudolph's CHOOSE ME obsessive relationship pictures but with pop art, cyberpunk and noir mashed together into a dreamlike concoction. Also, Divine plays the mob boss heavy.
Speaking of noir/crime films. I rewatched Michael Mann's THIEF tonight and that held up really well, I think it's probably his best work. I also watched Don Siegel's CHARLEY VARRICK for the first time, which I thought was fairly terrific with an odd combination of tones ranging from deadpan comedy to fairly brutal action with Joe Don Baker playing a heavy that seemed like proto-Anton Chigurh.
-
I wasn't aware there was a Drowning Pool film; I'll bet Newman nails it as Archer. Blue City with Judd Nelson seems less appealing.
Re-watched The Naked City a few weeks ago on a '40s-'50s noir kick. New York's almost a character in the film, stolid and impassive from a distance but teeming with life and strangeness at the molecular level. I was a little thrown by the voice-overs on first viewing - they're sort of a bizarre combination of educational film and weary, detached/ironic voice-of-God, but I like it because it sort of half-mocks the film's slight tendency towards pedantry (which is never obnoxious), and the narration makes the film's "conscience" into an amusing personality, arch and self-aware. I'm a sucker for the seedy side of Old New York, and the cinematography is mean and beautiful, heavily influenced by the aesthetic of crime/candid photog by way of Weegee. Looking forward to re-watching Rififi and Night and the City in coming days.
-
I wasn't aware there was a Drowning Pool film; I'll bet Newman nails it as Archer. Blue City with Judd Nelson seems less appealing.
Re-watched The Naked City a few weeks ago on a '40s-'50s noir kick. New York's almost a character in the film, stolid and impassive from a distance but teeming with life and strangeness at the molecular level. I was a little thrown by the voice-overs on first viewing - they're sort of a bizarre combination of educational film and weary, detached/ironic voice-of-God, but I like it because it sort of half-mocks the film's slight tendency towards pedantry (which is never obnoxious), and the narration makes the film's "conscience" into an amusing personality, arch and self-aware. I'm a sucker for the seedy side of Old New York, and the cinematography is mean and beautiful, heavily influenced by the aesthetic of crime/candid photog by way of Weegee. Looking forward to re-watching Rififi and Night and the City in coming days.
The Naked City is a really good one and was the film that got me into Jules Dassin. Brute Force, his prison escape entry, is worth a watch, too, if you haven't already.
-
Speaking of noir/crime films. I rewatched Michael Mann's THIEF tonight and that held up really well, I think it's probably his best work. I also watched Don Siegel's CHARLEY VARRICK for the first time, which I thought was fairly terrific with an odd combination of tones ranging from deadpan comedy to fairly brutal action with Joe Don Baker playing a heavy that seemed like proto-Anton Chigurh.
Terrific film. Re: Parker, it seems like it could maybe be okay, and Flashfire has two sequences that would lend themselves well to Hollywood action. Emphasis on the maybe, I assure you, and although I'm an admirer of Jennifer Lopez's physical form she seems terribly miscast here. Seems to me the Grofield novels would make for better Big Hollywood movies - he's supposed to be good-looking, constantly cracks wise, and spends a great deal of time chasing tail.
-
Newman is Archer in 2 films, Harper and The Drowning Pool.
Samuel Fuller's Noir films are exceptional and well worth viewing my personal favorites being House Of Bamboo which stars Robert Stack (Unsolved Mysteries) as an American GI going undercover to investigate an American crime syndicate in post WWII Japan, the other being Underworld, USA Cliff Robertson stars as a man trying to avenge his fathers death. Both are A+
-
Naked City is amazing. Have to admit that I haven't seen much Dassin besides.
-
You'd like him. Night and the City and Rififi are other favorites. Thieves' Highway is decent noir but not up to the standard of the three I mentioned. Rififi was one of the first films Dassin made after he was blacklisted and living in France, and hangs with the best French noir of the '40s-'50s like Melville and Becker.
-
I loved "thieves Highway"! Who woulda thunk you could make a suspenseful flick about the vegetable wholesaling trade?
You'd like him. Night and the City and Rififi are other favorites. Thieves' Highway is decent noir but not up to the standard of the three I mentioned. Rififi was one of the first films Dassin made after he was blacklisted and living in France, and hangs with the best French noir of the '40s-'50s like Melville and Clouzot.
-
Eric, add Rififi to the top of your to-watch list.
-
Looks good.
-
Samuel Fuller's Noir films are exceptional and well worth viewing my personal favorites being House Of Bamboo which stars Robert Stack (Unsolved Mysteries) as an American GI going undercover to investigate an American crime syndicate in post WWII Japan, the other being Underworld, USA Cliff Robertson stars as a man trying to avenge his fathers death. Both are A+
Underworld is aces and so is Pickup on South Street. Park Row and Shock Corridor. There isn't a bad Sam Fuller film out there -- at least, not that I've seen. Fuller's a true American weirdo with a sixth sense for the dark stuff and a conscience to boot. His films, many of which aren't short on sensational imagery or commercial overtures, are also sharp-as-fuck and subtle, and he's got a knack for pulling away from the mechanics of plot to reveal doubt-riddled consciences and howling insecurities of characters who might be fleshless noir stereotypes in the hands of a less scrupulous or compulsively honest director. His films are all skin and bone; no gristle. He's one of my favorites.
Anyone seen Anthony Mann's Side Street? Sounds good from what I've read.
-
Just watched Kubrick's Killer's Kiss. Axe fight in the mannequin factory is crude and brilliant. Plenty of fun camera angles.
-
*snip*
Anyone seen Anthony Mann's Side Street? Sounds good from what I've read.
Yeah, it's pretty good. There's a lot of great location work and I believe it ends with a pretty spectacular action sequence. I also remember quite liking his RAW DEAL and T-MEN noirs which were spectacularly shot by John Alton. Although for me, Anthony Mann will always be most notable for the awesome noir westerns he made with Jimmy Stewart which challenged Stewart's awe-schucks schtick and set him up for the more complicated shading that's Hitchcock exploited for VERTIGO.
-
My three favorite" etc". - Gun Crazy (dir by Lewis), Detour (Ulmer), They Drive By Night (Ray).
-
French noir. Used to watch a lot of it; not so much recently. Talking about this stuff is whetting my appetite for revisiting some classics. A few good 'uns, off the top of my bean:
Marcel Carne - Port Of Shadows
Louis Malle - Elevator To The Gallows (with a christ-killing Miles Davis soundtrack)
Jean-Pierre Melville - Le Samourai, Le Cercle Rouge, Bob le Flambeur
Jacques Becker - Touches pas au Grisbi, Casque d'Or
F. Truffaut - Shoot The Piano Player (a treatise on American noir, but a cracking good fucking film in its own right.)
-
Melville's the best. Bob Le Flambeur is a personal fave.
Anyone mention Thieves Like Us yet? More of a neo-noir, I guess.
-
Killer's Kiss rules. What is that, like 70 min's?
Coincidentally just watched Rififi last night to make up for missing it on TCM last month. Fantastic
-
French noir. Used to watch a lot of it; not so much recently. Talking about this stuff is whetting my appetite for revisiting some classics. A few good 'uns, off the top of my bean:
Marcel Carne - Port Of Shadows
Louis Malle - Elevator To The Gallows (with a christ-killing Miles Davis soundtrack)
Jean-Pierre Melville - Le Samourai, Le Cercle Rouge, Bob le Flambeur
Jacques Becker - Touches pas au Grisbi, Casque d'Or
F. Truffaut - Shoot The Piano Player (a treatise on American noir, but a cracking good fucking film in its own right.)
Shoot The Piano Player is awesome (and based on a David Goodis book, to boot). Melville's Army Of Shadows isn't a noir, but it's fucking amazing. Also worth checking out is Classe Tous Risques which was directed by Claude Sautet and features Lino Ventura and Jean Paul Belmondo.
-
I could be talking out of my ass since I see about two new movies every year, and there might be some decent fare I missed recently, but I think it'd be pretty hard to make a good film out of a Stark/Westlake, Chandler, Macdonald, etc. book inside the studio system these days.
These days maybe, but Point Blank with Lee Marvin is the movie version of the first Parker novel and it's great. A fairly perfect translation of the Stark style to the screen, in my opinion.
I agree that it would be tough to translate the Parker books to the screen now days, people are dumber, right? But the trailers for this monstrosity make it look like the team behind didn't even read the books, not that I should be surprised or shocked by that.
I'd say Get Shorty, Out of Sight, and Jackie Brown are all worthy translations of Elmore Leonard, though, as far as contemporary pulp/noir goes.
-
Samuel Fuller's Noir films are exceptional and well worth viewing my personal favorites being House Of Bamboo which stars Robert Stack (Unsolved Mysteries) as an American GI going undercover to investigate an American crime syndicate in post WWII Japan, the other being Underworld, USA Cliff Robertson stars as a man trying to avenge his fathers death. Both are A+
Underworld is aces and so is Pickup on South Street. Park Row and Shock Corridor. There isn't a bad Sam Fuller film out there -- at least, not that I've seen. F
I was disappointed by the Big Red One. It's like Porky's meets the Dirty Dozen, but not as good as that sounds.
-
French noir. Used to watch a lot of it; not so much recently. Talking about this stuff is whetting my appetite for revisiting some classics. A few good 'uns, off the top of my bean:
Jacques Becker - Touchez pas au Grisbi - contains my all-time favorite dirty-old-man line.
-
I could be talking out of my ass since I see about two new movies every year, and there might be some decent fare I missed recently, but I think it'd be pretty hard to make a good film out of a Stark/Westlake, Chandler, Macdonald, etc. book inside the studio system these days.
These days maybe, but Point Blank with Lee Marvin is the movie version of the first Parker novel and it's great. A fairly perfect translation of the Stark style to the screen, in my opinion.
I agree that it would be tough to translate the Parker books to the screen now days, people are dumber, right? But the trailers for this monstrosity make it look like the team behind didn't even read the books, not that I should be surprised or shocked by that.
Modern translation is Payback, or worse the new Statham movie.
-
I want somebody to make Phillip Kerr's 'Berlin Noir' trilogy into a movie that doesn't suck.
-
These days maybe, but Point Blank with Lee Marvin is the movie version of the first Parker novel and it's great. A fairly perfect translation of the Stark style to the screen, in my opinion.
I agree that it would be tough to translate the Parker books to the screen now days, people are dumber, right? But the trailers for this monstrosity make it look like the team behind didn't even read the books, not that I should be surprised or shocked by that.
Well, it's not just that folks are dumber. Schmucks are schmucks and they've been schmucks since Chaucer put pen to vellum and committed the word "fart" to the ages, and for millennia before that. (It's my theory that the proportion of morons in any historical epoch is a universal constant much like the speed of light in a vacuum-- and just as self-contained). My point is that it seems like genre boundaries have become more rigid since the era of Point Blank and the strange, experimental "thrillers" that played to decently-sized audiences in the '70s. I think a contemporary adaptation would be much more streamlined and formulaic, considering the cookie-cutter aspects of recent "action" or "horror" flicks, but maybe that's just historical perspective. There's always been pressure to conform.
-
what the others said. all mellville is good. add night in the city by dassin. then samuel fuller, henri-georges clouzot and jacques becker. i guess kurosawa too. i've been more on a italian neorealism kick lately.
-
I want somebody to make Phillip Kerr's 'Berlin Noir' trilogy into a movie that doesn't suck.
Great idea but I think the better medium is HBO series. I don't know how you could pack all that stuff into one movie.
-
I want somebody to make Phillip Kerr's 'Berlin Noir' trilogy into a movie that doesn't suck.
Great idea but I think the better medium is HBO series. I don't know how you could pack all that stuff into one movie.
Yeah, I wouldn't want them to squash the trilogy into ONE movie! On an somewhat related note: 'Smiley's People' was ridiculous for that very reason.
-
Anyone have any strong thoughts on Derek Raymond? I bought A State of Denmark a while back -- more dystopian than hardboiled -- and I couldn't really get into it. His Factory series is supposed to be good noir-like reading.
-
Started reading Raymond's He Died With His Eyes Open a few weeks ago, but lost interest after a couple of chapters and returned it to the library. Can't really say what turned me off, except that his style reminded me a bit of Martin Amis. Might give him another shot, I don't know. People seem to have a pretty high opinion of him.
-
Can't get into the venerated Raymond at all. Plenty of overpriced shit for sale Eric Feldman.
-
Better to buy new books during my lunchbreak than new records. (I buy both.)
Hell, I never really dug Spillane, either.
-
The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing is one of my favorite hardboiled crime novels, just re read it recently.
-
The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing is one of my favorite hardboiled crime novels, just re read it recently.
Wherever you go, there you are. hahahahah Good book.
-
Kayo Books has a mint OG Killer Inside Me for $650 bucks. Clearly would never even spend close to that on a book but it is really nice.
This cover:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDkx/$T2eC16RHJIYE9qUcOPgUBQtY%28R7Jz!~~60_35.JPG)
I have this one:
(http://www.crimeculture.com/Images/09_thompson_KIM.jpg)
Dig the Kubrick quote. Always heard he was either going to make that or A Clockwork Orange. Can't say he chose poorly by any means but would have loved to seen his take on Thompson's magnum opus. Anyone see the Casey Affleck version? yeesh
-
The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing is one of my favorite hardboiled crime novels, just re read it recently.
GREAT BOOK. Doesn't get the acknowledgment it should. Should be mentioned with Chandler and Hammett et al. but I'd never even heard of it 'til I picked up an anthology of '30s-'40s crime fic. (Also in the same collection: They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and Nightmare Alley, both essential reads.) Apparently they made a couple movies out of it. Ray Milland stars in one of 'em.
-
Kayo Books has a mint OG Killer Inside Me for $650 bucks. Clearly would never even spend close to that on a book but it is really nice.
This cover:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDkx/$T2eC16RHJIYE9qUcOPgUBQtY%28R7Jz!~~60_35.JPG)
I have this one:
(http://www.crimeculture.com/Images/09_thompson_KIM.jpg)
Dig the Kubrick quote. Always heard he was either going to make that or A Clockwork Orange. Can't say he chose poorly by any means but would have loved to seen his take on Thompson's magnum opus. Anyone see the Casey Affleck version? yeesh
I h ave the one you have Vin. Don't hate me if I say I thought Casey Affleck in the title role wasn't bad? Movie was alright.
-
Naked City is amazing. Have to admit that I haven't seen much Dassin besides.
Naked City is great, but I think the narration was a little redundant for the most part.
I want somebody to make Phillip Kerr's 'Berlin Noir' trilogy into a movie that doesn't suck.
Great idea but I think the better medium is HBO series. I don't know how you could pack all that stuff into one movie.
Yeah, I wouldn't want them to squash the trilogy into ONE movie! On an somewhat related note: 'Smiley's People' was ridiculous for that very reason.
Do you mean the new "Tinker, Tailor". I thought the BBC productions of that and "Smiley's People" were pretty faithful to the books.
-
Do you mean the new "Tinker, Tailor". I thought the BBC productions of that and "Smiley's People" were pretty faithful to the books.
You're absolutely right. I was commenting on the folly of compressing 6 hours of compelling mini-series into 90 minutes of the Gary Oldman movie. Didn't work very well, in my opinion.
-
The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing is one of my favorite hardboiled crime novels, just re read it recently.
GREAT BOOK. Doesn't get the acknowledgment it should. Should be mentioned with Chandler and Hammett et al. but I'd never even heard of it 'til I picked up an anthology of '30s-'40s American crime novels. (Also in the same collection: They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and Nightmare Alley, both essential reads.) Apparently they made a couple movies out of it. Ray Milland stars in one of 'em.
Yeah, that is the only one I've seen. Pretty good, worth watching.
I watched In A Lonely Place recently, Bogie's best.
-
Do you mean the new "Tinker, Tailor". I thought the BBC productions of that and "Smiley's People" were pretty faithful to the books.
You're absolutely right. I was commenting on the folly of compressing 6 hours of compelling mini-series into 90 minutes of the Gary Oldman movie. Didn't work very well, in my opinion.
Yeah, it wasn't terrible but they should've definitely gone long form. They kind of squandered a great cast.
-
didnt think there was anything wrong with casey affleck's film version. anything in particular you didnt like, vinnie?
-
I forgot about Nightmare Alley. Good read.
Kayo is the best bookstore I've ever visited.
-
I only saw it once when it came out about 3 years ago. I didn't think it captured the vibe of the book very well and the women leads were annoyingly cast (Alba and Hudson).
-
the women leads were annoyingly cast (Alba and Hudson).
i'll agree with that.
-
I want to re-watch all that French stuff now. Le Cercle Rouge heist scene--TENSE!
-
And the Rififi heist scene--MO TENSE!
-
Dig the Kubrick quote. Always heard he was either going to make that or A Clockwork Orange. Can't say he chose poorly by any means but would have loved to seen his take on Thompson's magnum opus. Anyone see the Casey Affleck version? yeesh
That Kubrick quote was what initially sold me on Killer before I knew much about Thompson. Probably been on every paperback edition of that book since J.C. walked the earth, and for good reason. Killer and Pop. 1280 are my favorite Thompson yarns. I could easily live in a universe without Clockwork, especially if it meant a Kubrick take on Killer. Fantasy bill 8-ball sez Nicholson and Karen Black, fresh off Easy Rider.
Bummed I didn't make it to Kayo when I was in SF for work last year. Got down to the store on a Saturday night but they'd been closed for about half an hour. Settled for a long look through the window at all kindsa wallet damage.
-
(Also in the same collection: They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and Nightmare Alley, both essential reads.)
Two of my favorites.
I thought the recent film version of Killer Inside Me was visually / aesthetically great, but overall pretty meh.
-
Living across the street from Kayo is tight. I try to pop in at least once a weekend (they're only open Th-Sa 11-6)
-
Living across the street from Kayo is tight. I try to pop in at least once a weekend (they're only open Th-Sa 11-6)
Was pretty bummed that I missed them last time I was in SF. Stayed around the corner, but we only tried while they were closed.
-
I refuse to watch that film adaptation of The Killer Inside Me.
Kayo's smut section is tops. Wish I'd purchased more.
James M. Cain is underrated. Currently.
-
My three favorite" etc". - Gun Crazy (dir by Lewis), Detour (Ulmer), They Drive By Night (Ray).
I love that quote from Lewis about his direction for Gun Crazy:
I told John, "Your cock's never been so hard," and I told Peggy, "You're a female dog in heat, and you want him. But don't let him have it in a hurry. Keep him waiting." That's exactly how I talked to them and I turned them loose. I didn't have to give them more directions.
-
On the detective novel side of things, anyone else a big fan of the Hard Case Crime line of books? Some of them suck, like Stephen King's Colorado Kid, but I loved Little Girl Lost by Aleas, Fade to Blonde by Max Phillips, and then all of the reissues of Westlake, Lawrence Block, and that new Ariel S Winter sounds pretty great.
-
On the detective novel side of things, anyone else a big fan of the Hard Case Crime line of books? Some of them suck, like Stephen King's Colorado Kid, but I loved Little Girl Lost by Aleas, Fade to Blonde by Max Phillips, and then all of the reissues of Westlake, Lawrence Block, and that new Ariel S Winter sounds pretty great.
I subscribed for the first few years. Then bailed when only one of three books was readable. They did a lot of good ones though. A hard-to-find Goodis (Wouned and the Slain), Richard Prather's The Peddler, Wade Miller's Branded Woman (the guy who wrote Touch of Evil), both of the John Lange books and David Dodge too. Little Girl Lost was a good read, I agree. I wasn't a real big fan of the Quarry series which they kept putting out, and some of the modern stuff was too corny (Ken Bruen, the mentioned S. King book or two) but there's a lot of good stuff under the umbrella. I still want to read the "lost" James M. Cain novel.
-
Going to see Gun Crazy on Friday at the Castro. Have only seen it once late at night a couple years ago. Very stoked to see it on the big screen not stoked for Eddie Mueller, the self proclaimed CZAR OF NOIR to introduce it however.
-
Most of the Hard Case I've read is more noir-ish than detective. Overall they have better covers and hype than content. Sometimes there is a good reason even good writers like Block and Westlake have unpublished manuscripts.
Anyone seen the Stacy Keach "Killer..." from mid-70s. An entertaining mess. Setting changed to Montana.
-
Only Hard Case I've read was Songs of Innocence, the sequel to Little Girl Lost, and it was excellent. Came across that Ariel S. Winter book (and the new "lost" James M. Cain) at work recently, and am really intrigued. Pretty audacious, but the idea of attempting to replicate / pay homage / imitate the styles of three distinct writers / periods* over the course of one story is pretty interesting.
*Simenon / 30s; Chandler / 40s; Thompson / 50s
-
I have the Winter book. Three sections(styles) are very loosely connected. Pretty good.
-
My three favorite" etc". - Gun Crazy (dir by Lewis), Detour (Ulmer), They Drive By Night (Ray).
Nicholas Ray made two outstanding noirs in They Live by Night and In a Lonely Place. I saw They Live by Night and On Dangerous Ground several years ago as a double-feature when the Museum of the Moving Image was in exile in Manhattan. This woman got so pissed at me for eating a bag of chips.
-
(Also in the same collection: They Shoot Horses, Don't They? and Nightmare Alley, both essential reads.)
Two of my favorites.
I thought the recent film version of Killer Inside Me was visually / aesthetically great, but overall pretty meh.
It was terrible.
-
I've never read Simenon. Where should I start? Dirty Snow's been recommended. How about the Maigret books? There's so many of 'em!
-
I've never read Simenon. Where should I start? Dirty Snow's been recommended. How about the Maigret books? There's so many of 'em!
There's two shelves' worth of Simenon at work. I'm in the same boat as you, but Dirty Snow and The Man Who Watched Trains Go By seem to be calling my name the loudest. I don't hear/read many people talking up the Maigret books for some reason.
-
The Man Who Watched the Trains Go By is good. I'm reading Red Lights right now. Also good.
I own some Maigret volumes, but I've never read 'em -- the concept of a recurring detective seems too cute for me. His "hard novels" are somewhat unforgiving, in the best sense of the word. Stark but aloof, as only a Euro could manage.
Hit the bookstore this evening in search of some Alfred Bester and Sebastien Japrisot. Some guy was blocking my way as I tried to nose through the shelves. I crane the neck, nope. He's talking to two folks who'd apparently just attended a reading of some sort. I focus my eyes and listen to him talk for a moment. It's Handsome Dick Manitoba.
-
Lots of recurring detective stuff is anything but cute-Archer, Marlowe, many of their spawn.
I meant They Live By Night although They Drive By Night (dir by Walsh) is good too.
-
Great thread!
Here's some of my favourites:
Movies:
From the canonized ones, DOUBLE INDEMNITY, SUNSET BOULEVARD, LAURA, KISS ME DEADLY, TOUCH OF EVIL, and OUT OF THE PAST are my favourites.
From the rest (most already mentioned):
-The Killers - I'm a big fan of Burt Lancaster noirs generally, and this is the best. One of the films that best summarises noir fatalism.
-Murder My Sweet - One of the best Chandler adaptions in my opinion.
-Nightmare Alley - Only saw this recently. So cynical and pessimistic, a real gut-punch of a film that's like Elmer Gantry meets Jim Thompson. I need to read the book since I hear it's even more brutal.
-Mildred Pierce - Okay it's as much a melodrama, but I fucking love this film.
-Riffifi, Thieves Highway and Night And The City - The best 3 Dassin films I've seen. Perfection pretty much.
-Jean Pierre Melville films - While he didn't just make crime films, his run of them is great (Bob le Flambeur, Le Doulos, Le Deuxieme Souffle, Le Samourai, Le Cercle Rouge). Unparalleled.
-LA Confidential - Best '90s noir film.
-Underworld USA - Sam Fuller films always have an oddness about em. Great revenge flick this one.
-Fritz Lang noirs - All worth a go, from good to great. Fury, Human Desire, The Big Heat etc. M is my favourite Lang though, and has enough noir elements to include here.
-Experiment In Terror - Such an effective psycho-killer neo-noir from the early 60s.
-This Gun For Hire - Probably inspiration for Le Samourai, one of the best 'hitman' noirs (Blast of Silence and Murder By Contract being other good ones that spring to mind)
-Gun Crazy and They Live By Night - Already discussed, both so good, included together because of the Bonnie & Clyde elements shared.
-Sweet Smell Of Success - I doubt this can be included, but since it's so good I'm including it anyway. Same goes for Ace In The Hole.
-Asphalt Jungle and The Killing - Included together as Sterling Hayden heist movies, doesn't get any better!
-In A Lonely Place - If I had to choose one Bogart, this is the one.
-Narrow Margin - Best train-set noir, so fast-paced.
-Les Diaboliques - Again, not really noir, but what a fucking film.
-The Third Man - Simply one of my favourite films in general. Love all the slightly warped framing. Put Odd Man Out here too.
-Lift To The Scaffolds.
Honourable mentions to Pick-Up On South Street, The Big Knife, and The Unsuspected. There's lots of other good stuff but I'll end it there...And that's not including '70s 'neo-noir' stuff (Long Goodbye, Night Moves, Klute etc). Also no Hitchcock (if included I'd put VERTIGO).
I could happily watch noirs all day. Even a solid second-tier effort is enjoyable, like Kiss Of Death which I watched the other day - Sidmark great in his first role as a psychopathic killer, plays it like The Joker.
Books:
James M Cain - Everything. Guy wrote with such a fast-paced narrative even when there's no 'action'.
Chester Himes - A Rage in Harlem. Need to read more by him.
Dave Goodis - Down There. Actually read this based on a recommendation on this board, prior to seeing Shoot The Pianist. Really excellent.
Ethan Coen - Gates of Eden. I was so surprised by how good this short-story collection is. Each one reads like a potential Coen Bros noir film. Highly recommended.
Greene - Brighton Rock. I'm a massive Greene fan anyway (Heart Of The Matter is my favourite), and his crime books are excellent.
Alfred Doblin - Berlin Alexanderplatz. True, it isn't a noir per se but it's got enough elements to appeal to fans of the genre. One of my absolute favourite novels, and I finally just got the Fassbinder 15-hour film version on dvd.
Jim Thompson - Everything.
Ross Macdonald - Everything. As reliable as Chandler, even if not QUITE as good. The 2 film adaptations with Paul Newman in actually aren't bad.
Eric Ambler - Journey Into Fear, Mask of Dimitrios etc. Read quite a few Ambler, like a more fast-paced Le Carre; more spy-Cold War based cynicism but again enough noir elements. Plenty of ok film adaptions that don't match the books.
This thread has given me loads more recommendations, cheers!
-
And if anyone's into old radio noir (loads adaptations of popular films), all the SUSPENSE episodes are up here: http://archive.org/details/OTRR_Suspense_Singles
-
Lots of recurring detective stuff is anything but cute-Archer, Marlowe, many of their spawn.
Sure, and I enjoy some of those titles. I just can't dissolve the Inspector Clouseau association in my mind.
-
There are lots of cute ones. I'm no Maigret fan. Is the Pink Panther association only w detective novels or all aspects of life?
-
On Simenon, Dirty Snow and Tropic Moon are his best. Tropic Moon deals with French Colonialism in Africa and definitely has a noirish vibe to it. Dirty Snow is up there with the bes noir novels for me, dealing with a teenage pimp and hustler in German occupied France. Great noir story, and considered one of the most accurate stories of life in France during the occupation. The Maigret novels are solid train reads, but just light detective stories and definitely not essential.
-
For modern neo-noir novels, I enjoyed the Marseilles Trilogy by Jean-Claude Izzo. Good overall for modern crime fiction, even if he goes into poetics a bit much.
-
And if anyone's into old radio noir (loads adaptations of popular films), all the SUSPENSE episodes are up here: http://archive.org/details/OTRR_Suspense_Singles
I'll check this out, like listening to this stuff while doing prep at work.
Love these too:
http://archive.org/details/TheLivesOfHarryLime
Orson Welles revives his The Third Man character Harry Lime in tales of mischief around Europe. Could listen to Orsy read the phone book.
-
There's two shelves' worth of Simenon at work. I'm in the same boat as you, but Dirty Snow and The Man Who Watched Trains Go By seem to be calling my name the loudest. I don't hear/read many people talking up the Maigret books for some reason.
I'll check out those two, and Red Lights. Huge oeuvres are intimidating, especially when the quality is more or less consistent throughout. I feel that way with Greene too, although his body of work isn't enormous compared to some. I try to navigate through his novels using recommendations and criticism, but reading what other people are praising only gets you so far. You've gotta throw a Hail Mary once in a while. And I know Greene well enough to know that I wouldn't be disappointed by anything he cared to publish. His non-noirs are worth investigating, too: End of the Affair is a good one if you like to hang with D.H. Lawrence (and I mean that as a compliment), or even if you just like a good fucked-up anti-romance thick with emotional unavailability and Catholic guilt. Journey Without Maps is pieced together from a journal he kept while traveling Liberia on foot in 1935. The writing's as concise and conscientious as ever; speculations on tradition in the jaws of progress and descriptions of the alternately florid/dead/lethal countryside are riveting. It's full of hair-raising shit. Captain and the Enemy is a kids' book (so he says), but don't be fooled. It's a Graham Greene pirate story.
I've been on a Ross Macdonald kick recently myself. Making up for lost time, maybe. I finished Black Money a couple weeks back and started in on The Chill a few days ago. I like his writing a lot. It's terse and well-balanced between exposition and action, but there's also a fine thread of compassion that runs through it. Much like Greene. There's a new(-ish) Macdonald bio that I'd like to get my hands on, by a guy named Tom Nolan. Anyone have it/read it?
-
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/6ad78c1a4b3ed206ab04a219ad5c17cc/tumblr_mh7vuywUve1s3bynoo1_250.jpg)
Ex libris copy of a 1972 Coronet edition I picked up at a school fete when I was13 or 14, along with The Black Ice Score (long since lost). These two books were my first introduction to Parker and Richard Stark and the start of a love for noir and other genre fiction.
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Blastofsilence.jpg) One of my top ten noir films. Luckily Criterion put it out after only being available on bootleg vhs copies for years. Here's the great opening sequence.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JVXRNLu055k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JVXRNLu055k)
-
Saw PARKER last night and all I can say is LOL
-
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d7/Blastofsilence.jpg)
One of my top ten noir films. Luckily Criterion put it out after only being available on bootleg vhs copies for years. Here's the great opening sequence.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JVXRNLu055k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JVXRNLu055k)
A triumph of low budget filmmaking. Amazing film!
Noir faves; Sunset Boulevard, Kiss Me Deadly, Born To Kill, Kansas City Confidential, The Asphalt Jungle, Night of the Hunter, The Killing, The Killers (w/Burt Lancaster), Pick up on South Street, Gun Crazy, The Lineup.
-
Finally watched the Drowning Pool flick a couple days ago. 'Twas great! I was a little leery of the decision to set it in Louisiana 'stead of Southern CA, as Macdonald's descriptions of the landscape go a long way toward setting the mood of the book: violence/insanity/backstabbing 'gainst a backdrop of white sails, sun-striped lawns and moonlit bays. It's incongruous, but also fitting, and he gets a lot out of the juxtaposition. Louisiana was a fine substitute, though. Was also concerned that the cinematic version of Archer might veer close to the smooth-talking, wisecracking private dick trope, 'cause that's what they figured folks'd want: a hep, leisure-suited Philip Marlowe for the '70s, not the isolated, emotionally-driven Macdonald creation who's coasting by the seat of his pants more often than not. With this in mind, I was relieved when Paul Newman spent the first three minutes of the film wrestling with the seat belt of a rental car. The grand old moss-draped estate bore more than a passing resemblance to the one from Frogs! with Sam Elliott, which was an added bonus.
Also recently picked up the Macdonald bio I mentioned earlier in the thread. He's a fascinating guy. Wrote his dissertation on Coleridge and spent the rest of his life hammering out detective novels that operated on the level of Greek tragedy. His first couple of books garnered positive reviews, one or two of which went so far as to call him the "new Chandler", which understandably pissed off the old Chandler, who came back swinging with lots of nasty remarks re: the comparison. A tough blow for Macdonald, who idolized Chandler, but it prompted him to begin developing his own style, moving away from the Chandler and Hammett tropes and using his own life experiences and peculiar sensitivities to create something that was wholly his own province. Great books. Great guy.
-
MacDonald is my absolute favorite. Black Money and Killer Inside Me are constant back and forth for my favorite hardboiled crime novels of all time.
About 3 mins before posting this user: I Am Not Marty Feldman called me to talk about my favorite "Parker" novel. Like I said on the phone old buddy; Sour Lemon Score or The Outfit.
Theresa, what is the MacDonald bio called?
I really want to check out the Samuel Fuller autobio soon too.
-
Ross MacDonald: A Biography by Tom Nolan. Lots of used ones around for cheap.
-
I really want to check out the Samuel Fuller autobio soon too.
(http://images.betterworldbooks.com/155/A-Third-Face-9781557836274.jpg)
One of my fave autobiographies. Sam lived such an interesting life, that really documents the 20th century. From newspaper boy during the 20's Great Depression, tabloid journalist, WWII soldier to inspired low budget independent filmmaking. Sam was the best!
-
Yep, the Macdonald bio is the Nolan one. Just started, but I think it's pretty good. Apparently the guy got access to Macdonald/Millar's personal archives, which included notes for an unpublished autobiography, along with a huge stash of letters, drafts, notes, etc.
Third Face rules! In the lingo of yesteryear, it's a "rip-roarer". Even folks who aren't into Fuller would dig it anyway -- it's a damn good story.
-
i only had the energy to read the first 2 pages of this thread, but wanted to follow up on discussion regarding Dassin even though it seems like you're onto books now.
Night and the City is my number one favorite movie of all time. It is absolutely fantastic. Richard Widmark's performance in that is just totally unfuckingbelievable. The very essence of the anti-hero. This guy is really pathetic in a way, and conniving and scheming and makes some really stupid decisions and for some reason, you just really want him to make it, you know?
And it makes a great double feature with Pickup on South Street.
Richard Widmark is the man.
-
I made a point to photograph Windmark's hand prints and only Windmark's hand prints outside of Grauman's Chinese Theater the first time I was in L.A. He is indeed the man.
-
Re-reading The Chinese Keyhole by Richard Himmel. Kind of generic spy/noirish plot, but the writing is great. Economical and raw in the best ways. Only ever found one other Himmel book (I'll Find You), but it's more love story than anything else. Anyone read anything else by him?
-
Watched The Killers with Lancaster for the first time last night. Top stuff, loved the way the 2 killers were messing with the guys in the diner. Has Gardner ever looked as good as in this?
Also watched 3 of the Ladd/Lake noirs.I found This Gun For Hire ok, much better when Ladd in onscreen. The Glass Key has a fantastic performance by William Bendix, now of my favourite actors.
-
anybody seen Killing Them Softly? Friends of Eddie Coyle is awesome, so does this adaptation do Higgins justice?
-
Did anyone mention "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?"
-
anybody seen Killing Them Softly? Friends of Eddie Coyle is awesome, so does this adaptation do Higgins justice?
One of the worst movies I've seen in years.
-
better or worse than Parker?
-
been on a crime novel kick this summer.
Read my first Simenon (My Friend Maigret), The Man With The Getaway Face (2nd Parker novel by Stark), The Big Sleep (Chandler) and currently reading Down There/Shoot The Piano Player (Goodis).
Bumping this thread since I was looking at it and found lots to add to my list of to reads but will gladly take any more recommendations if anyone wants to add any.
-
How did you like the Simenon? I dig him. I like the Maigrets a lot but the non-Maigret ones are cool too - maybe a little more psychological. The Man Who Watched the Trains Go By is a good one. He has an overwhelming amount of books.
-
How did you like the Simenon? I dig him. I like the Maigrets a lot but the non-Maigret ones are cool too - maybe a little more psychological. The Man Who Watched the Trains Go By is a good one. He has an overwhelming amount of books.
It was enjoyable enough, but didn't really leave me with a desire to explore the Maigret series in depth. Might give another one or two a shot. Haven't read any of his roman durs but those seem more appealing to me.
-
Didn't know this was a thread: gotta go with "The Postman Always Rings Twice" as my favorite book and "Kiss Me, Deadly" as my favorite movie. I recommend both of these to anybody.