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Messages - tommm

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1
Music Shit / Re: Original Power Electronics.
« on: April 14, 2018, 08:05:10 AM »
RE: Prurient/Hospital:

If that's how you got into Noise that is totally cool, but personally never been a fan (sort of the epitome of the 'cool guy noise jock' mentality ref. above). Obviously Dom knows his stuff to a degree, but his artwork is lifeless. Haven't listened to a ton of it because honestly it has just never interested me, so I am admittedly generalizing here, but everything I have heard from that camp has ranged from decent, though ultimately forgettable empty style gestures (Cocaine Death - period being discussed, I guess) to straight up laughable (Bermuda Drain, Rainforest Spiritual Enslavement, etc.)

It's a tight line to walk for sure, but good Noise to me is messy; at the end of the day it should really just be confusing and sort of awkwardly funny, but this stuff is all so aesthetically comfortable (really quite normative). At this point in my life I get a lot more out of the refined Absurdism of a label like Stinky Horse Fuck (which sits at the polar opposite of the spectrum, while still definitely being a Noise thing) than the boutique hyper-classifications of Hospital/Posh Isolation etc.

I think you can really blame Dom for this inclination towards pedantry and the whole "This is my HNW project" ; "This is my Blackened HN / synth project" ; "This is my Romantic synth / Goth project" type behavior. Hospital was sort of ground zero for that kind of thing far as I can tell. And that shit is lame!
2
Music Shit / Re: Original Power Electronics.
« on: April 14, 2018, 07:51:00 AM »
It's like noise is turning into hardcore.

Haha yeah, sadly I think that's been the case for awhile now. I've come to the conclusion that anything as tied to genre and reverent of its own past as Noise tends to be is bound to die at its own hands (see: 'Psych Rock', for instance). There are exceptions of course (been digging a lot of stuff coming out of SWE lately, Team Boro Tapes especially), but by and large 'capital N' Noise in 2018 is a pretty dull proposition.

Skin Crime/Self Abuse is sick as hell and an excellent example of expanding on influences in a meaningful way, rather than just a bland photocopy or some cluesless 'anything goes' Micky Mouse horseshit. It's funny how hip that stuff has become ('cos of the Hospital reissues), but all the cool guy noise jocks paying lip service still don't seem to have learned much from it.

For anyone unable to grasp that not everything conveyed through art is meant to be taken literally ("Art" is actually shorthand for "artificial" ! ) there are countless examples of good Noise (as opposed to 'PE', which again was a narrowly-defined thing that has been irrelevant for three decades and counting) that has nothing to do w/ the naughty boy clichés.

One of the best records from the 80's that could still be considered in the 'PE' framework, but is totally devoid of that kinda thing is Network by XX Committee. Total steamroller receptive riffs dismantled to sound like alien factory churning. An overlooked classic that is supposedly getting reissued soon on Harbinger (though it's been delayed for years now). Ferial Confine is great too, especially Full Use of Nothing, which is a lot more abstract/free of meaning but still gives you that oscillating shit-fi squelch.

As far as any actual sense of 'danger' is concerned, I basically agree w/ WB; it's a dead end. Though I think I get where D_W is coming from with the overly-contrived, back-patting atmosphere attendant to much of the current 'scene'. Shit is stale.

As regards demographics, 'PE' (in its current, anemic state) is white male edgelords, yes, but Noise in general is pretty diverse from what I can tell. One of the few admirable aspects of the current 'scene', in its broadest context, is the relatively high ratio of women, genderqueer people etc. v. CIS white males. Never diverse enough of course, but at least as opposed to lots of other similar things (though I don't make it out to a ton of shows or whatever these days 'cos not much of it interests me, just speaking from experience of that last couple years).

Anyway D_W, good points from someone who someone who appears to actually know about and be interested in discussing the topics at hand, rather than just typing to hear their own voice.

3
Music Shit / Re: Original Power Electronics.
« on: April 11, 2018, 02:36:53 PM »
Ehhh, don't really know why I'm bothering, but I've gotten in a lot of arguments over the years about this stuff seeing as I enjoy most of the originators (while fully opposing their supposed political 'message', of course), so why not?:

I think a lot of misconceptions arise from people not recognizing "Power Electronics" the term was introduced (c. 82 by William Bennett) as a joke. That's six years before my birth, so not like I was there to chart its course, but anyone who's opinion I value who was into this stuff at the time always noted the inherent humor that seems to have been lost or grossly distorted along the way. Does anyone actually think a bunch of pasty British wankers running around screaming "Shit fun!" was meant to be frightening?

As such, 'PE' was never really a genre/movement, more a facetious descriptor for a particular sound/imagery employed by a number of projects emanating out of UK/Italy. It developed adjacent to similar happenings in Japan, and a bit later the US/elsewhere, sure, but stands apart to a noticeable degree (even something as closely related as, say, The New Blockaders, isn't quite the same thing, to the extent that such classification matters).

So, you're really dealing with a limited group of people if we consider strict parameters of the first wave: Come Org.-era Whitehouse and related off-shoots, Consumer Electronics/Iphar, Broken Flag (before they went rock/general exp.), Mauthausen Orchestra/Aquilifer Sodality, maybe some MB and that's basically it. All of those artists have moments of genius, though they spawned some horrid shit for sure.

The notion "without edgy lyrics what's left?" is kind of the crux of the problem. A good portion of the above didn't even use vocals much, and when they did it was the least interesting part! If it 'aint your bag fine, wouldn't expect it to be for everyone, but understand that many of these bands were much more sonically adventurous and, in their way, nuanced, than they are credited. Listen to the prime material of the original artists (so not Cut Hands or a Consumer Electronics release w/ Russell fucking Haswell on it) and it's clear that if you took away the rude elements you're really in the lineage of the best Art Brut/Fluxus/Sound Poetry etc. type recordings, albeit with a much more Negative bent. Bennett has cited how influential stuff like the Cramps Nova Musicha series was and you can really hear it throughout the Come discography.

I'm not saying there is a 'right/wrong' way to listen, but focusing solely on the shock elements does seem misguided, and just about anyone I've ever met who considered that the main appeal was a try-hard loser. I'm sorry but with very few exceptions everything from Tesco up to Freak Animal and whatever else is considered 'PE' these days is just so corny. They took the easiest, most superficial aspects of their influences, ignoring everything actually provocative about them, and created a dull caricature. To my ears they have about as much in common with their predecessors as some Burger band does with the Ramones or VU.

Also, not trying to make excuses for anyone, but it's worth considering the context: A lot of figures far more prominent than any noise guy were flirting with Nazi fetishism around this time. Most of the people involved were in their teens/early 20's, had just seen punk/industrial culture watered-down and co-opted, and wanted to do something that felt vital (not to mention were shit-head kids that wanted to piss everyone off).

I suppose that is what's meant by "didn't age well" (and I sort of agree), but the 'shock tactics' of some of the smartest/best examples could also be seen as much of a smoke screen as an affront to the emerging indie apparatus. Like, this shit is so alienating already, why not slap an SS solider on the cover to really ram it home? It's not as if your average Factory/Mute records fan was going to give them the time of the day to begin with; just another way of saying "good then, we don't need you, fuck off etc. et al."

Again, not saying such a stance isn't problematic; Gary Mundy has stated in interviews that the idea of actual Neo-Nazi support was unthinkable at the time, though looking back he realizes how naive that was and considers it to be pretty lucky they didn't actually attract that sort of fanbase. And then there's what came after, which I've made my position pretty clear on...

Whether some of these people were cool on a personal level is something quite different (Bennett, Philip Best, Kevin Topkins, etc. certainly don't come off very good then or now, and their output has been shit for decades), but I don't think any of them were particularly sincere as pertains to actual beliefs vs. the content of their art. This quote from a 1994 Steven Stapleton i/v is pretty enlightening (always found his relationship w/ Bennett to be intriguing, and it ended for the reasons I would've guessed):

Quote
SF: What about William Bennett and Whitehouse?
SS: One day, just after CHANCE MEETING... was released, I went into the Virgin record shop. I was looking through the racks trying to see if it was there, and I came across an album called BIRTHDEATH EXPERIENCE which I bought because it just looked so obscure. When I listened to it I thought these guys are totally mad, and I noticed there was an address on it, so I went round there. Yeah, he lived just down the road, I met him and he became a really close friend for about five years. Even today he's in London now, but we don't see each other because basically we've nothing in common. He's only interested in upsetting people. The less he can put on a record, the less effort he can put into the record, he will do! His ethic was 'Everybody who buys my records is a cunt basically, and I'm just showing that everyone's a cunt.' I lost interest in it. In the early days William did some really interesting things, ERECTOR I think is an amazing record, a really strange album.
SF: What did you think of Come's RAMPTON?
SS: There's some good riffing on that.
SF: And some good ideas.
SS: Yeah, but after ERECTOR it was all downhill.
SF: Obviously the erection started to droop!
SS: Hmmm, yeah, he's now impotent. I always thought of Bill as the Benny Hill of Industrial Music! (laughter) Well it's true, isn't it? It's ridiculous, the last gig they played in London. I went along to that. I hadn't seen Whitehouse since I used to play with them, and I was expecting a barrage of noise. It was in Edmonton which I thought was an odd place for Whitehouse to play, it's a nothing place, considering they were supposedly so big in America. I was standing there with David, and this wimpy sound came out of the speakers, I just couldn't believe it. 'This is Whitehouse?' It was so pathetic. I said to David 'We can't let him die like this!' So, I asked a guy where the mix desk was, I rushed up the stairs and pushed the guy out of the way, who was like the resident mixer, and I said 'I'm Whitehouse's technical mixer', and just went crazy - I pushed everything up full, it was totally manic, and suddenly I had people threatening me with bottles, then the manager came up and threatened to shut everything down unless I stopped. I was just going crazy, I was so drunk, I was just flying everything from speaker to speaker, I was cutting things out - you could see the musicians on stage, they had no idea what was happening! While this was going on, William was trying to organise this spanking contest, with several people up on stage with their bums showing, hitting them with whips, it was so pathetic. Really, really tacky. I heard the tape recently and it's just so viscous, so much better than all their releases.

OK, sorry for long post, carry on. Just wanted to clear up what in my mind is a notoriously misrepresented area of sound, and explain (to myself, I guess) my reasons for appreciating it. (and seriously, how sick is that Stapleton quote? Just found and wanted to share, don't even like NWW that much but what a guy!)
4
Music Shit / Re: Difficult Listening Made Easy Podcast
« on: February 16, 2017, 02:32:23 PM »
Vol. 19 (Jim Strong):

-Phil Minton & Audrey Chen 'Sense' By the Stream (Sub Rosa, 2013)
-Dieter Roth & Richard Hamilton 'Hundelieder 5' Canciones de Cadaques (Primary Information, 2015; Edition Hansjorg Mayer, 1976)
-Halim El-Dabh 'Leiyla Visitations Thirteen' Crossing into the Electric Magnetic (Without Fear, 2000; unreleased, 1959)
 -The Cranium 'New Hormones. Until Then, We will not know what love is.' A New Music for a New Kitchen (Slowdime, 1998)
-Odwalla88 'Heart Shard' Earth Flirt (Ooga Booga, 2015)
-Crash Course in Science 'Cakes in the Home' (GO GO, 1979)
-Aksak Maboul 'A Modern Lesson' (excerpt) Un Peu De L 'ame Des Bandits (Crammed, 1980)

-Joe Meek and the Blue Men 'I Hear a New World' (excerpt) (Trimuph, 1960)
-Anne LeBaron 'Concerto for Active Frogs' (excerpt) Rana, Rituals and Revelations (Mode, 1992)
-BOBO 'Waste of Space' bobbYsong (no label, 2009)
-G.I.S.M. 'Death, Agonies and Screams' Document One: 1982-1984 (Time Span, 2010; Dogma, 1983)
 
-Elaine Kahn 'Against Nature' Reading from the Poetry Center (no label, 2016)
-Isolde Touch 'Figure 1' (unreleased, 2016)
-Intersystems 'Confetti Room' Free Psychedelic Poster Inside (no label, 1968)
-Jim Strong & Mel Bentley 'Kayak' The Sallow Rakes (Vitrine, 2016)
-Posset 'G J De Rook Posset Remix' (unreleased, 2016)
-Francois Dufrene 'Crirythme 67' (Edition S, 1977)
-BOBO 'Roo and Nesta: Quadrupulation Hour' (audio from video currently screening @ Vox Populi, 2016)

-SEFIII 'Bad Sesh at the Cafe' (Ehse, 2016)
-Drew Zimmerman 'MC Bingandbob/‘Ain’t We Haven Fun' (audio from Marionette videos which aired often on Jim’s hometown public access, 2010)
 -Jim Strong 'Field Recording of Aunt Alice’s Terrier' (unreleased, 2015)
-Ono 'X-Ray' Machines That Kill People (Thermidor, 1983)
-Ghost in Salad 'Lip' Dreamers Wardrobe (unreleased, 2016)
-Jim Strong & Digbee 'Three for Anne' CUY EP (previously unreleased archives of home recordings 2007-09, 2008)
-John M. Bennet 'All Holes Day' (excerpt) Philadelphia Stigmergy (forthcoming)

https://soundcloud.com/difficultlisteningmadeeasy/dlme-jim-strong
5
Music Shit / Re: Difficult Listening Made Easy Podcast
« on: December 30, 2016, 11:52:58 AM »
Vol. 18:

-Guido Gamboa '5' Saturdays Notes (Pentiments, 2016)
-Ross Manning 'untitled' (side A excerpt) LED (no label, 2016)
-Ryoko Akama 'Hako to Oto' (excerpt) Hako to Oto (Crustaces, 2016)
-J.S. Hogan / Nor Raecke 'untitled' Unfinished Tape (unreleased, 2016)
-Kyle Page 'Two Movements' (unreleased, 2016)
-Joe Musgrove 'untitled' (side B excerpt) Music from an Unremarkable Room (Pleasing Everyone All the Time, 2009)

-Noizunzuri 'AI (Love)' Foam (Ylem, 1981)
-All That the Name Implies 'August Pine' S/T (ORO, 1968)
-Cold Sun 'Live Again' Dark Shadows (World in Sound, 2008; unreleased 197?)
-Bladder Flask 'Musical Behind Head' (excerpt) One Day I Was So Sad the Corners of My Mouth Met & Everybody Thought I Was Whistling (Orgel Fesper, 1981)
-A-Musik 'El Pueblo Unido Jamas Sera Vencido' E Ku Iroju (Zeitgenossische Musik Disk, 1984)
-Gregory Allan Fitzpatrick 'Det Onda Tornet' Bildcirkus (Mistlur, 1978)
-Nik Raicevic 'side B' Beyond the End…Eternity (Narco, 1971)

-Peter Hammill & Graham Smith 'The Second Hand' Modern (Impossible, 1979)
-no artist 'Ett Barn Leker Med Vuxna' Reportage: Spela Sjalv (Expo Norr, 1970)
-artist unknown 'River Lane' Kissing Spell Sampler (Kissing Spell, 199?; unreleased, 1971)
-Merlin, Swara, Ilor & Friends 'The Question Died' Cosmic Kraut Experience (Coloured Rain, 1998; unreleased, 1974)
-La Monte Young 'Poem for Chairs, Tables, Benches etc.' II (no label, 2016; Velvet Underground Appreciation Society, 199?)

-Come 'President Your Pricks Stiff' I’m Jack (Come Org, 1981)
-Juan Hidalgo 'L.H.O.O.Q.' Rrose Selavy (Cramps, 1977)
-Gerhard Ruhm 'Reagans Humor, Klavierstuck Uber Einen Witz Des Amerikanischen Prasidenten' Das Leben Chopins Und Andere Ton-Dichtungen (Edition Block, 1986)

https://soundcloud.com/difficultlisteningmadeeasy/dlme-vol-18
6
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: December 16, 2016, 03:32:49 PM »
Anyone else really into Canterbury scene other than Soft Machine? I'm into Caravan but still sorta get turned off by the jazz influence in some of those bands.

Always found Caterbury stuff to be a bit overrated but generally enjoy it. Can be pretty hit/miss. Caravan I like, especially In the Land of Grey and Pink which has their strongest songwriting to my ears.

Hatfield and the North (led by ex-Caravan Richard Sinclair) is probably my fave. band from this scene. They did some pretty interesting and unique things w/ layered vocals. I really can't think of anything else that quite sounds like them.

Really enjoy the Dutch band Supersister as well, who weren't formally Canterbury due to geography, though they do sound an awful lot like Caravan only a little better/slightly less goofy. Their first two LPs are very good.

Also dig National Health, Egg, Quiet Sun, first couple Wyatt solos etc...
7
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: December 04, 2016, 04:09:21 PM »
If anyone digs Nelson or VDGG, please point to some highlights -- I'm open to digging 'em. 

Big time VdGG fan here, and am somewhat surprised by all the derision, but I suppose Pete's squealing vocals can grate. An acquired taste, I'll give you that. A quick primer:

-Aerosol Grey Machine/Least We Can Do.../H to He...: The formative period. First album is really more of a late period psych affair, pretty flowery, similar in both sound and function to Pretties For You. I like it as such, but it's not really emblematic of what would come. The next two further refine their sound, aided by David Jackson (guy always wearing the weird hat) on horns. These are actually my least favorite VdGG records (70's VdGG at any rate), something about them is very stiff, awkward, they are clearly still finding their footing...

-Pawn Hearts/Godbluff/Still Life/World Record: ..and here they've found it. The aforementioned Pawn Hearts is where they truly come into their own w/ those incredibly jagged and dramatic dynamics. There's no middle ground. If looking for coherent side long suites "A Plague of Lighthouse-Keepers" surely ranks near the top of its class. There's a long gap btw that record and the master stroke of Godbluff which is captured on the great Time Vaults comp. Godbluff is the band's peak IMO and the place to go if you're curious as to the appeal. If that one doesn't swing you it is probably a lost cause. A lot of people mark World Record as their dropping off point but I love that record. Thematically it is very disjointed as pointed out earlier, but it's a great set of individual tracks. "Wondering" is one of the saddest songs I've ever heard and has one of the all time best videos uploaded to YT from someone's utterly wrecked VHS copy (search: "VDGG Wondering Promotional clip (BAD QUALITY!!)" to treat yourself to one of life's rare pleasures).

-after this period there are line up shifts and it's all a bit of a mess. I like The Quiet Zone/The Pleasure Dome but it's hardly the place to start. I've heard some good boots of late 70's shows (Graham Smith's violin sounds particularly potent live for some reason). There was a comp. of BBC sessions, After the Flood, that came out a few years ago that is a good place to go after you've digested the proper records, and probably works equally well as an intro.

I actually prefer Peter Hammill's solo records to VdGG's generally speaking, In Camera (recorded on a 4-track while Pete was taking care of his ill brother) being a go to. Very peculiar vibe, almost Gothic in spots, very sealed-off, the b-side dominated by the expansive, concréte-inspired "Gog; Magog". Great cover shot of Pete wearing a cape, to boot. A lot of people like Nadir's Big Chance, which was his response to punk/wave. Enter K is an early 80's highlight that sees Pete delving deeper into himself/his own demons and away from the big existential questions that were the topic of much of his 70's work. It's as good as anything he's done and a personal favorite that would likely appeal to fans of Lou circa Growing Up In Public. "Show me the way to happy hour."

Be Bop Deluxe always seemed pretty dire to me, and I've never heard anything to indicate otherwise, though Nelson's ties to the excellent Holyground label are enticing, as noted. I just wish Lightyears Away weren't shorted an LP side by the painfully mediocre Thundermother (the psych equivalent of the age old Faith/Void debate?).
8
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: December 04, 2016, 03:34:24 PM »
A prog monster I love is Gryphon's Red Queen To Gryphon Three.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=INn8BO9iMCc

If ludicrously fruity complex arrangements based equally on mediaeval music and highly arranged rock dynamics are your bag then this'll tweak your beard-stroker nodes good. A friend of mine laughed out loud when I 1st played him this, yet it really smokes!

This LP perfectly exemplifies what Coley and Johnson in one of their less sound moments - referring to another more obscure but equally florid and ornate UK prog LP - describe as maximum 'pooftiness moves'.

Red Queen to Gryphon Three is indeed a monster, and I too have been chaffed, perhaps deservingly, by almost everyone who's overheard me playing it (except one old roommate who enjoyed that it reminded him of something you'd hear while navigating the map part of Zelda). I love that there are more musicians credited w/ playing krumhorn than guitar. Will also go to bat for the excellently-titled Midnight Mushrumps (though that one has never made me any friends either), but Red Queen... is where Gryphon really hits their stride. Charlie M, what was the original LP Coley and Johnson were talking about?
9
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: December 04, 2016, 03:24:09 PM »
https://guerssenrecords.bandcamp.com/album/cologne-curiosities-the-unknown-krautrock-underground-1972-1976

That Chronus track is incredible. I thought it was fake at first, ala KBD #11, but I guess it is real.

Apparently the "Mad Twiddler" from Cronos is some Krautrock luminary. So there is some fakery involved.

The story is that it was all first reissued on a Virgin CD box set back in the 1990s, right?

It sounds more like a Krautrock version of "We're Loud" than Nuggets or whatever the sticker says.

"We're Loud" isn't fake, is it?

https://dereksmusicblog.com/2016/10/11/cologne-curiosities-the-unknown-krautrock-underground-1972-1976/

Thanks for providing this link, was always under the impression that all the Pyramid-related stuff was 100% a hoax. I'm still not convinced (nor do I really care when it was actually recorded), a lot of the music really does have a 90's British post-rock sound that is pretty apparent, but good to read another perspective.

Faux-Kraut could have it's own subsection at this point. The HNAS-related Damenbart, Ashtray Navigations-related Mittelwinternacht '71, all the Coloured Rain titles, etc. Fun, sleazy stuff.
10
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: November 20, 2016, 01:08:28 PM »
Appreciating the Soviet/Eastern Europe recs., big blind spot for me.
11
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: November 20, 2016, 12:52:07 PM »
More Zeuhl recommendations 'cos I've been listening to it a lot again lately. Udu Wudu is an excellent Magma record, agreed. There's a live version/video on YouTube of the long closing track "De Futura" that is absolutely crushing and I think is a pretty good starting point for the band. Also of interest is Jannick Top, who was only in Magma for a couple years but left a big mark compositionally. The collection of his '74-80 recordings, Soleil d'Ork is well worth tracking down. There are a ton of satellite projects that vary widely, as might be expected, like the Vander/Top/Lockwood/Widemann Fusion LP (w/ hilarious cover art of the band standing in front a red sports car) or the Alien Antibes 83 arrival collection. Those are both far more jazz-oriented than Magma's proper albums ever get though, and far from 'essential.'

I forgot to mention one of my favorites, Rialzu's U Rigiru, obscure one shot Corsican band that splits the difference btw Zeuhl and Italian prog nicely. I think that's a good place to go if you like Magma but are looking for more folk-ish elements. Archaia and Flamen Dials are excellent, 'cosmic' sounding Zeuhl/electronic/generally weird records that were both reissued a few ago to some deserved fanfare. They have what I always hope to get from something like Heldon/Richard Pinhas, who I like in theory but on record sounds kind of flat and indistinct to me. RIO isn't really my bag but Univers Zero and Art Zoyd are decent examples of the darker/less quirky side and stylistically pretty similar to Zeuhl as well.

Scandinavia had some pretty cool shit going on. NWW-listed Algernas Tradgard are highly rated for a reason, their sole LP (which translates to something like "The Future is a Hovering Ship Anchored in the Past" and has track titles like "There is a Time When Even Time Will Stand Still") is a high water mark for communal psych/prog, w/ medieval folk and modern classical leanings. The archival follow up, Delayed is also quite good, but more of a live/jam thing. Furekaaben from Denmark have two very rare LPs of loose, druggy, proto-DIY that I love and think would appeal to fans of the It's War Boys/Fuck Off catalogs. Of the many Bo Anders Persson fronted vehicles I'm most partial to International Harvester, whose LP is probably more psych than prog (released in 1968) but is still worth checking out.

Other radom great things (some of these also toe the line btw psych/prog):

-Can am des Puig (SP/FR) Book of AM (Disques Labo Lab, 1978)-intricate, atmospheric hippy commune type vibe w/ Soft Machine and Gong ties. One of the few things I can think of that sounds remotely similar to Algernas Tradgard.
 
-D O M (GER) Edge of Time (Melocord, 1972)-heady Kraut w/ some folk tendencies, I put it in the same elite class of the above.

-Spirogyra (UK) Bells Boots and Shambles (Polydor, 1973)-the third LP by this underrated band is a game changer for me. Their debut is OK and the 2nd one is a drop off in quality for some reason, but if you like the others maybe give it a whirl.

-Gygafo (UK) Legend of the Kingfisher-criminally underrated prog-folk recorded '73 and released posthumously on the fantastic Holyground label. Great song-writing, heavy in parts, pastoral in others, do not understand why this one doesn’t get more respect.
 
-Yedza Urfa Boris (no label, 1975)-actually a demo w/ very rough sound quality that was eventually/unfortunately cleaned up by the label that reissued in the mid-00s, many consider this to be the best U.S. prog record of all time and I'm not inclined to argue. Sort of similar to Mirthrandir but not as frantic, though the song writing is a few notches above and it's more of something you can return to often. Follow up proper LP Sacred Baboon is also quite good but a bit more polished.
12
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: November 19, 2016, 08:55:58 PM »

At the risk of splitting hairs, I wouldn't call German Oak or Madrigal prog.  Madrigal is basically a freakout record, which is a sort of subgenre onto itself.   

I hear you for sure, was applying a pretty liberal definition of prog to illustrate how far reaching it can be, I guess. A lot of the things I listed are really just weird rock records made either during or immediately after the initial prog boom, and while they might not have a lot of qualities one would consider particular 'prog-y' (due to lack of musicianship, poor recording quality etc.) I don't think any of them would've been made w/o it. I'm sure a lot of people think of something like Airway as just an early example of Noise, but there are the remnants of rock in it, and it's a rock much more indebted to the likes of King Crimson than it is the Stones of Jefferson Airplane or whatever.

Of course you can cast too wide a net and the term becomes meaningless (like how Prog Archives claims basically all music w/ any artistic ambition post '70 that isn't explicitly experimental/academic in nature) but it's a blurry line. Where else do we put all those great eccentric arty French records (along the lines of Heratius, ZNR, Fille Qui Mousse) or the more outward bound Kraut (Zweistein, Anima Sound etc.)? They're a far cry from Peter Gabriel prancing about in a flower costume, but I still think they fit, albeit awkwardly.

At the risk of opening things up even wider-and this is really a whole separate topic-but it's worth noting that a lot of great music from the early 80's on was really more post-prog than punk. This Heat, ATV/Good Missionaries, a lot of the roster of a label like Pinakotheca. Neither here nor there really, but the idea that all disaffected youth adhered to a strict diet of VU/Stooges/Dolls etc. for the first half of the 70's is both misguided and square.
13
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: November 19, 2016, 09:41:19 AM »
Oh shit, forgot about RPI, which you might also be looking for considering the interest in Sensations Fix. The Italian rock scene of the early 70's is pretty fascinating in general considering how insular and competitive it was. It's a very particular sound and definitely not for everyone (I know a lot of people w/ great taste who just cannot deal), but a few worth checking out:
 
-Museo Rosenbach Zarathustra (Ricordi, 1973)-Music simply does not get much better than the side long suite that opens this record. Portentous mellotron, sweeping, reoccurring melodic phrases, operatic Italian vocals detailing the plot of a Nietzsche-classic, who could deny it? There are a few demo collections from the same time period, all also come highly recommended.
-Quella Vecchia Locanda S/T & II Tempo Della Gioia-two highly rated classics that hit all the benchmarks of the sub-genre for me.
-II Balletto Di Bronzo Ys (Polydor, 1972)-NWW-listed classic. Heavy, fucked up record.
-Biglietto Per L'Inferno S/T (Trident, 1974)-see above
-II Volo S/T & Essere O Non Essere-newer to these guys but have been enjoying lately.

Gentle Giant are so fucking sick. They get a bad rap for some reason (it took me years to really give them a shot) but they are pretty heavy/rocking at times. They can be a bit fanciful, sure, but their run of LPs from the early 70's through the excellent, already mentioned Free Hand is impressive. Just look at the vile cover of Acquiring the Taste; who wouldn't want to listen to that?!:



Charlie M, you know that Mirthrandir record, For You the Old Women? One of the only LPs I can think of that does it for me on the budget GG level. Just full throttle the whole way through, a weird one.
14
Music Shit / Re: Help with good underground prog recommendations
« on: November 19, 2016, 09:06:58 AM »
Ha, this is good timing, I don't post here much but had been meaning to bring back that 'great prog' thread. I love slick shit in the vein of Yes/Gentle Giant/Mike Oldfield etc. but won't subject anyone here to that. For the more budget/basement/'underground' sound that I think a lot people approaching from a Punk/DIY angle might enjoy you could do worse than starting w/ labels like Futura or Pole/Tapioca and just seeing what sticks. A lot of shit available for sampling on YouTube and the like. A lot of this stuff has been reissued of course, as well. I think some of the more rock-oriented LAFMS stuff qualifies as well. A couple favorites in what I deem the wasted fringe rock category:

-Semool Essais (Futura, 1971)
-Mahogany Brain With (Junk Saucepan) When (Spoon Trigger) (Futura, 1972)
-Mahogany Brain Smooth Sick Lights (Pole, 1976)
-Madrigal S/T (no lable, 1971)
-German Oak S/T (Bunker, 1972)-many (self included) question the recording date. Seems like a hoax, but decent record nonetheless.
-Frolk Haven At the Apex of High (LRS, 1973)-just a bizarre/beautiful train wreck of an LP, infamously featuring a young Stewart Copeland who would go on to The Police (but don't don't let that scare you away)
-Moolah Woe Ye Demons Possessed (Atman, 1974)
-Airway Live at Lace (LAFMS, 1978)
-The Decayes Ich Bin Ein Spigeli (Imgrat, 1978)
-first two Smegma records (LAFMS/Pigface)
-Udder Milk Decay Take a Teat (no label, 1981)
-Hastings of Malwai Vibrant Stapler Obscures Characteristic Growth (Papal, 1981)-featuring Heman Pathak, part of original NWW lineup

For complex/dark stuff in the vein of King Crimson or VdGG but more fucked up Christian Vander is your friend. Magma from the first album pretty much through the 70's do very little wrong in my book, the high points being:

-Mekanik Destruktiw Kommandoh
-Kohntarkosz
-Live 2xLP
-Inedits (demos and rougher recording, which may appeal to you if looking for a more unpolished sound)

Zeuhl/related:

-Dun Eros (no label, 1981)-dark and excellent flute heavy trip based on the Dune series
-Weidorje S/T (Cobra, 1978)-formed by mid 70's Magma rhythm section, as good as anything from the parent band.
-Bondage Fruit (all)-Japanese neo-Zeuhl. Just search their cover of "Born to Be Wild." If that doesn't win you over I don't know what will.
-Shub Niggurath (everything and related projects)-just one of the most evil sounding bands in existence. They got better as they went along.
-Potemkine Foetus (Pole, 1976)-Been listening to this one a lot lately. Excellent violin playing, light downer vibe, a sleeper in the much touted Pole catalog
-Lard Free (everything and Gilbert Artman solo)-excellent early art rock w/ a proto-punk feel/attitude.

Some Jazz/Fusion gets pretty dark and similar to what you may be looking for as well, such as:

-Islands Pictures (Round, 1977)-the Geiger-penned cover sets the tone pretty well. Probably the only record that actually comes close to touching that majesty of VdGG. Gastric Juices!
-Secret Oyster (all four LPs)-great instrumental prog w/ jazzy touches, especially effective when extremely hungover.
-Tomorrow's Gift S/T (Plus, 1970)-sick flute playing and throaty female vocals all over this one, pretty evil sounding at times.
-Dedalus (Trident, 1973)-heavy Italian fusion-y rock in an almost electric Miles style. Great cover art as well

OK, that should be a good enough start. Apologies for the long lists, just seems the most logical way to go about this. If you're interested in any other areas (electronic, prog-folk etc.) let me know. This is just the tip..
15
Good lord...just to highlight the idiocy:
Quote
You might also question how Kate Biggars, in a fairer world, a perennial contender for top-ten placement on ?Women Who Rock? lists, feels about these easy-come-easy-go bandmates, all younger and more overtly decorative, none able to manipulate even a single effects pedal, let alone the set that Biggars works, two-footed, while thrashing her whole body in thrall to the song. It?s a feminist conundrum, certainly, that one of the bands that has showcased a genuine female threat for the longest also pads its roster with eye candy, but there it is, our imperfect world again.

As a Major Stars and TV fan in general, I don't think I have thought for one second about their relative attractiveness as I click through live videos, searching for one with good sound...Are the seven other people who still care about Twisted Village that shallow?? More than pitting them against each other, he's accusing Rogers of pandering and public humiliation of his SO...

He is a She, not that matters that much as idiocy is gender neutral.  Also, I happen to know for a fact that every Major Stars singer is a fucking effects pedal virtuoso.

What a strange, reckless review. My girlfriend was the OG piece of 'eye candy' employed by the band; she is puzzled by the speculation contained therein.
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