RECTAL DEPTH: Young Steve vs. Piranhas

[erickelric]

I'm not asking you to fucking like it, dude. I could care less. You are missing the point YET AGAIN. And you are an ass if you think music doesn't require, or CAN require, intellectual engagement. I don't "need" to think about the Piranhas to enjoy them, but I can if I want, and the enjoyment is not lessened by said thinking. You just want music to hit yr tiny little G spots and make everything hunky dory.

And music and literature may be different forms of art, but both are art nevertheless, and why can't they be held to the same (broad) standards? Just because you took classes to understand Russian authors doesn't mean you couldn't take classes to understand Stockhausen, Coltrane, and the Master Musicians of Joujoka. I fail to see why this isn't obvious. Please enlighten me.

[Late Twenties Steve]

You know what actually would make me a hypocrite? If I allowed myself to be browbeaten into pretending to like things just because they were in favor with a vocal majority.

Vocal majority? Ha! In what bizarro world do 10 people on an esoteric music board constitute a majority of anything?

Just within the context of here. I don't think anybody I see on a regular basis has even heard the Piranhas. Could be wrong though.

[Sukebe GG]

All media exist to invest our lives with artificial perceptions and arbitrary values.
Marshall McLuhan

Yep, Piscis rocks - like Teengenerate meets Brotzmann on Saccharine Trusts front lawn...

[erickelric]

Oh, and all I ever listen to is Japanese powerpop. All day everyday. Nothing else. Nope.

Is this irony? I need to take this into aesthetic consideration.

You know what actually would make me a hypocrite? If I allowed myself to be browbeaten into pretending to like things just because they were in favor with a vocal majority.

Vocal majority? Ha! In what bizarro world do 10 people on an esoteric music board constitute a majority of anything?

Just within the context of here. I don't think anybody I see on a regular basis has even heard the Piranhas. Could be wrong though.

Is this double irony? This thread was partly started because everyone, outside of about 5 of us, actively and passionately hate that Piranhas record. And we're sick of it. Vocal Majority? Didn't they have a track on 'Not So Quiet on The Western Front?'

[erickelric]

Steve, this is why people get pissed: You basically are telling us that we are lying to ourselves why we enjoy something and that we are soft-headed dumbfucks fooled by fake artists and jive turkeys who spend lots of time and money playing their dastardly tricks on our desperate need to be "cool" and "different."

Well, fuck you, it ain't so.

Maybe you just feel sorry for us, but, my friend, I feel sorry for you. Your capacity for the abstract is like a 6'x6' cell. Chalk up another one.

[Late Twenties Steve]

I'm not asking you to fucking like it, dude. I could care less. You are missing the point YET AGAIN. And you are an ass if you think music doesn't require, or CAN require, intellectual engagement. I don't "need" to think about the Piranhas to enjoy them, but I can if I want, and the enjoyment is not lessened by said thinking. You just want music to hit yr tiny little G spots and make everything hunky dory.

And music and literature may be different forms of art, but both are art nevertheless, and why can't they be held to the same (broad) standards? Just because you took classes to understand Russian authors doesn't mean you couldn't take classes to understand Stockhausen, Coltrane, and the Master Musicians of Joujoka. I fail to see why this isn't obvious. Please enlighten me.

Music doesn't require intellectual engagement because it can be apprehended and appreciated without mental activity. You shouldn't need to think about music because once you start thinking about an aesthetic experience it snaps you out of a direct experience of the art in question and puts you in the secondary realm of analysis. Analysis is great and all, but unless it comes after the fact you aren't able to experience a state of aesthetic arrest where everything drops off save for a feeling of awe and wonder before the grand lines of nature as manifested in a work of art. Instead you're thinking "isn't this great" rather than feeling the "whatness" of the artwork in question. Literature is the only form of art that plays by a different set of rules because by its very nature you need to think about it in order to appreciate it. While there are a lot of linguistic tricks a skilled writer can play with tools like meter, word choice, landscape, etc. that can give a reader the experience of aesthetic arrest, literature remains at its most potent when it deals with the world of abstract ideas which require discourse with the intellect. Therefore I would classify literature as an intellectual form of art.

Music on the other hand is at its most potent when it appeals to emotions. Music cannot convey the types of ideas literature can unless it is in the form of lyrics (which have obvious limitations compared to a novel) because the "ideas" expressed by music are so abstract that they cannot be verbalized. Even concepts like rhythm, melody, meter, pitch, etc. fall short of describing the ideas expressed by music. Rather they describe the form music takes.  Since you cannot name the ideas music expresses in concrete language I would classify music as an emotional form of art.

Oh, and unfortunately I didn't take classes to understand Russian literature - I just read it. However, one could take classes to understand all sorts of things about different forms of music: the sociocultural background it emerged in, the biography of musicians, music theory, etc. The problem is once you start thinking about music when you listen to it you're automatically lessening its aesthetic impact because you are thinking about all sorts of ancillary concerns rather than just hearing the music for what it is. Knowing about what life is like for people in Niger doesn't effect how I hear Group Inerane. They sound awesome just because they do.

Steve, this is why people get pissed: You basically are telling us that we are lying to ourselves why we enjoy something and that we are soft-headed dumbfucks fooled by fake artists and jive turkeys who spend lots of time and money playing their dastardly tricks on our desperate need to be "cool" and "different."

Well, fuck you, it ain't so.

Maybe you just feel sorry for us, but, my friend, I feel sorry for you. Your capacity for the abstract is like a 6'x6' cell. Chalk up another one.

Erick, nobody's calling you a soft-headed dumbfuck. Sorry if you take it that way. I've got respect for your take on music but I don't agree with where you're coming from a lot of the time.

I do think the Piranhas are jive turkeys though.

[turn_coat]

I don't mind Pisces Clangor all that much.  While it's not my favorite Piranhas record I still listen to it on occasion.
I am pretty amused how up in arms people are getting over it.

[grandmaster satch and the bi-curious five]

I do think the Piranhas are jive turkeys though.

[CollectorScum]

im pretty sure they played again the next year on halloween.

And here are pics from that Halloween show, 2003.  I think this is the only time I seriously took photos while a band played (well, not that serious):

[Tippet]

Music doesn't require intellectual engagement because it can be apprehended and appreciated without mental activity. You shouldn't need to think about music because once you start thinking about an aesthetic experience it snaps you out of a direct experience of the art in question and puts you in the secondary realm of analysis. Analysis is great and all, but unless it comes after the fact you aren't able to experience a state of aesthetic arrest where everything drops off save for a feeling of awe and wonder before the grand lines of nature as manifested in a work of art. Instead you're thinking "isn't this great" rather than feeling the "whatness" of the artwork in question. Literature is the only form of art that plays by a different set of rules because by its very nature you need to think about it in order to appreciate it. While there are a lot of linguistic tricks a skilled writer can play with tools like meter, word choice, landscape, etc. that can give a reader the experience of aesthetic arrest, literature remains at its most potent when it deals with the world of abstract ideas which require discourse with the intellect. Therefore I would classify literature as an intellectual form of art.

Music on the other hand is at its most potent when it appeals to emotions. Music cannot convey the types of ideas literature can unless it is in the form of lyrics (which have obvious limitations compared to a novel) because the "ideas" expressed by music are so abstract that they cannot be verbalized. Even concepts like rhythm, melody, meter, pitch, etc. fall short of describing the ideas expressed by music. Rather they describe the form music takes.  Since you cannot name the ideas music expresses in concrete language I would classify music as an emotional form of art.

[dusty medical]

Piranhas: GREAT

[erickelric]

Knowing about what life is like for people in Niger doesn't effect how I hear Group Inerane. They sound awesome just because they do.

And so do The Piranhas. Thanks for making my point for me.

And all that lit hoohockey you threw out is fucking bullshit. Literature can effect you "emotionally" and music can effect you "intellectually." I love how you like one "weird" and/or "foreign" band and suddenly you are an expert on knowing what the "real" shit is. Everything else is just a con. Or something to be ridiculed because you think it's all intellectualized and some kind of lie. Like, I really need a thesis to understand Ukrainian hip-hop, man. I couldn't possibly "feel it." And neither can they. Uh uh, no fucking way, bro.

How does that straightjacket fit? Snug?

Man, Steve, I appreciate your passion and intellect, but you really enjoy putting the world in a box, eh?


Get laid, tAKE SOME LSD, move out of your Mom's house, etc....

[frankie teardrop]

Here is my personal Piranhas story. When I was in high school (2002/2003), I was at a record store in Ann Arbor (Yeah, Encore!). I walked in the door and saw Jamie flipping through records (with who I assume was his girlfriend or friend). I had no idea who he was, but was taken aback by this dudes "Mega-chops". Anyways, about a month later I heard about the piranhas and dug them a lot. Then, I finally saw a picture of the singer and had a "acid worthy" flashback.

I never saw them though since they always played 21+ places and I didn't have any fake ID connections or people I knew who could get me into shows. Bummer.

one of my favorite bands for sure. Redundant is their best song.

I also remember there was a time on TB when it was very acceptable to totally bash the hell out of Picsis Clangor.

Anybody got a copy of their tour only 12"?

[frankie teardrop]

Also, Steve won the argument. Please lock thread.

[SSR]

Young Steve's are ravings from a man who can't fathom anyone sincerely liking the Brainbombs, who are about as primal as you can get.  Contradictions abound between his words and his taste, which is all this boils down to. Steve can intellectualize his taste and try to make that the rule all of us need to abide by lest we be called insincere or poseurs. Fine, but his patter comes from the same chicken shit bullshit that keeps him from cutting the apron strings and moving to Japan. Fact is people come to music, lit, art from so many different places including cultural background, parenting, psych quirks, physical differences, education, etc. that there are no hard fast rules about how people perceive or understand things, beyond basic science and even those rules can be compromised. As important is the understanding that life is not static and there for one's interaction with art is not fixed. It is pretty basic to me, but then again I am 86 years old and went though all this mono-minded bullshit when I was a wee lad. Young Steve, time to grow up.