wavves

[TTT]

for sure.  before i get this started i dont apologize wholesale for anyone.  i did not like most of the stuff on his demo he sent me very much, i mean it was listenable but i got an "ok" impression....hence i thought i would pick out a couple of the best ones and we'd do a single where i thought i was basically helping this no name dude get a record because i liked his old ass thrasher pics and 2 or 3 tracks a lot.  so please dont get this idea like im hailing dude as the second coming.  but he's also not that bad either.  and when i thought it was "ok" i didnt start 30 threads on TB about it.  oh shit!  headline!  band is "ok" for the most part!  Has a couple good tracks! 

kevin, you're a great guy i think, but really you need to kind of stop acting like you invented all things lo-fi and all things sincere.  your tone really implies that you have this deep-rooted sense of self-righteousness and entitlement over all of these lesser-deserving bands.  you dont have the patent on that kind of music so nobody fucked that up.  i hear what you're saying in some ways on this, but to act like people invaded the tower is sort of not true,  whats good will always be good and whats shit will always be shit.  look at the hate this kid gets.  he isnt get away with anything, so you dont have to feel threatened and like he stole your life's work or something.  i hope you dont feel that way anyways, thats what it sounds like.  but thats an awesome sentiment and i dont want to change your mind at all.  i really respect that what you wrote up here.  im not trying to be anyones apologist though.  we just see that differently i guess.  im not even really into the middle of this, shit i could care less.  i just tried to defend him cuz things did get rather absurd for a long time with the over-hype-hatred imposed on this kid.  I would say the same shit if i put something out or not.  And like I told someone else earlier, ill never be ashamed i put out that 45, i still like it a lot.  

I think this whole thing is just from you really respecting the method someone works under a lot more than most people.  most people just want some honest and good music to drink some beers to.   an example or analogy or what-not is like whereas you value a slow churned amish type butter, i am indifferent.  i like butter that tastes good.  it doesnt matter if fabio is on the box, or some amish lady is chillin making it slowly all authentic.  or some buddhist butter maker is like "one with the butter".  you can tell when something sucks or is bullshit.  and yeah sincere records are keepers over stupid ones, but hell, variety is good too.  and i can put anything on my toast and make it work out ok.  so to me i like records, i like releasing them, because its fun and i like trying to make good records.  i get to try to put out something i like kind of feeling like i helped somebody sometimes too.  most of the times bands help me though.  but anyways this isnt even about any of that.  its about just how i respect what you're saying, and you were very articulate about it.  that whole thing you wrote was nice to read.  went down sincerely and it was.  but the hate is a little over the top on wavves you have to admit.  whats said has already been said dozens of times.  thats not apologist, thats just me being like wow this is over the top.  point is im not attacking anyone, im just occasionally pissy when people go to really far lengths with it compared to how real the situation really is.  its so not that drastic.  i know theres plenty of people who work their ass off for their music, but i also know that what i said is true too.  its all fine and i really dont care that way at the end of the day that much.  like i said you can tell when stuff is really fake or retarded, but this isnt that bad.  people got hold of a few facts and shit all over this dude.  and its just really lame after a while and i sorta feel for him on that.  

[Radio Heartbeat]

A good song is a good song and it'll sift through all the quagmire of b/s pretty easily. People are smarter than you give them credit for.

The whole home-recording thing is great, but it's just like any other style, there will always be acts that have the right "sound," but the songs aren't there. I don't mean song as in conventional songwriting, I mean quality.

That's really not directed at any one band (I like Wavves, I understand the discontent a bit, but whatever).

I think Pink Reason not only record(ed) the way you did because you liked the way it sounded, but also out of necessity.

It's true there are now people aiming for that sound purposefully. And maybe even in some cases, the influences are informed from that style and not from outside sources.

A good example is "minimal synth." The earlier bands are the best because they were writing in the style of other bands or musicians they liked before there were synths, just using new equipment. Whereas now you have people making music only informed by that sub-genre. It's noticeable!

I think there's still a lot of good to come from home-recording loner stuff. I really like Dum Dum Girls (obviously), but I feel like that is influenced by The Ramones and The Crystals and recorded lo-fi because that's her only option as opposed to trying to sound like Psychedelic Horseshit or whatever.

Lately I've been recording with other people and using all kinds of recording equipment while also still using the Tascam for some songs. To me, the song itself dictates the type of recording sound I want, not the other way around.

Also, don't let this stuff fret you too much. Pink Reason is quality. If people make some money by copping some of you and your friend's hard work, don't let it get you down. Just keep writing songs and think about longevity. The present is for BrooklynVegan trolls. Fuck'em.

[Vegman]

Termbo in 2011

"Who?"

[vint]

It's not even that I think that people are stealing my thunder or anything. I just feel bummed out by a lot of things that are happening and I'm bummed by how it has effected some of my friends. I know people that only wanna play shows now where they get paid X amount of money and play to X amount of people when to me a huge part of doing what we do is working up to that point. People from the midwest can just come out to NY and play some big shows while completely ignoring the Lafayettes of the world. If it wasn't for people like Horseshit and I coming through places like Omaha, I don't know that we'd have a band like Yuppies and they're one of the most exciting bands going right now. I don't think I invented "lo-fi" like TTT has suggested I've claimed, but my incessant touring for two years and hooking up with all these at the time no-name bands spread out across the country made a definite impact on what's going on right now and undeniably helped build a network that didn't exist before. I'm proud of my hard work and the results they've netted, it was only three years ago that no label would ever touch a band like Pink Reason and now there are labels popping up every day focusing on "the new sound" and the focus of many of the major independent labels has shifted their focus onto this as well. I'm not asking for a pat on the back or my name in the thank yous on people's records, but I feel that I have a right to voice my opinion on this subject, especially since I've been bitching about shit I see problems with my whole life and I definitely made plenty of rants on this board long before it's became the institution that it is today. Some of the newer folks here just missed quite a bit of it because I quieted down for a couple of years there because I was pretty happy with everything I was seeing. Search through the old pages and you'll find multiple page long methed out rants hating on everything.

[Scrod Prickknee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyptFru5tcg

[vint]

pink reason sucks.

[Vince Clortho Keymaster of Gozac]

A good way to not get duped by hype: wait 6 months and buy the record if you still want it. No one needs to be the first kid on their block with the new flavor of the week's limited single.

Think of how many "hyped" singles from numerous decades past are currently occupying the longboxes and understock at your favorite used record store.

Also, Nick G...ultimate dude, or whatever Clint said.

[Scrod Prickknee]

It's a good idea in theory, but unfortunately a lot of the best records really do go out of print forever and maintain the high asking price. Just thinking about the best HoZac (Spider, Catatonic Youth) and SSLD (Lost Sounds, Tokyo Electron) releases, they're legitimately awesome and haven't been repressed (except Spider, on another limited release) and still command pretty serious dollars (for someone like me who won't pay $30 for a single, let alone $100).

[Vince Clortho Keymaster of Gozac]

There is absolutely NO record that has come out in the last few years that has gone OOP that I have wanted 6 months after it was released that I have not been able to get this way...either by it showing up in a store randomly or on ebay once everyone moves on to the next thing or from someone on here's nice price set sale. Maybe the first Tyvek single...otherwise I can't think of anything else.

Spider could be an exception but whatever...I jumped on the preorder for that one and don't plan to part with the 45 anytime soon.

It's a good idea in theory, but unfortunately a lot of the best records really do go out of print forever and maintain the high asking price. Just thinking about the best HoZac (Spider, Catatonic Youth) and SSLD (Lost Sounds, Tokyo Electron) releases, they're legitimately awesome and haven't been repressed (except Spider, on another limited release) and still command pretty serious dollars (for someone like me who won't pay $30 for a single, let alone $100).

[vint]

The first Tyvek 7" was around for six months after it's release.

[Vince Clortho Keymaster of Gozac]

Had one in my hold pile at Academy...don't know what happened to it. Yeah...besides that can't think of anything.

[the cool ruler]

I was gonna respond, and then I realized most of what I had to say was already said...

music preferences are not this dramatic.  drama is this dramatic.  and the music issue has not been separated from the hype here.  so nobody judges his songs at all.  they talk shit about how its not deserving of the hype he's getting.   and thats true.  but it does bring up side arguments people make that just make me fucking itch in my brain.  like the whole "oh no he didnt tour enough".  wow.  jeeeesusss christ.  sorry your life was harder?  sounds dick-ish of me to suggest that kind of flippant remark, but seriously.  what the fuck?!    because according to that logic maybe you all shit talkers oughta go starve for a while in war-torn 3rd world fucked up wilderness cuz you're so fucking hardcore (you don't want to be a pussy now do ya?).  gotta have that pain right?  that suffering?  what the fuck.  no you don't at all.  thats just tough breaks most people have to suffer through which clearly sucks sometimes and is rewarding in it's own ways too.  but it doesnt make anybody else a bad person just cuz they didnt go through the same shitty experiences as some of you did.  you are using it as a legitimizer of your life and opinions.  like "I suffered through this that etc ect so im better than him".  thats pretty fuckin unfair if you want to talk about publicity shit.  when people say shit like this alarm bells go off in my head cuz its nothing to do with any kinda proclaimed ethics most of the time at all.  no fucking way it has to do with "doin it the right way".  nope.  in terms of true motiviations for shitty smears like this its mostly influenced by either jealousy that somebody got an easier path,  or just wanting to shit on someone to remain in complete denial that somebody did it smarter than you did so you can still elevate your mediocrity to great heights in some false mental world, or just plain trying to drag people down to your levels of miserable acceptance of your own mediocrity and thereby equalizing the "sellout" in question with any of your successes.  In other words people love to throw shit on normal folks who just got lucky.  it's really sad and reflects poorly on peoples character i think. 

why is the amount of hate in direct proportion to the popularity of the band?  what bands have been trashed the most in recent memory here?  wavves, vivian girls, black lips, etc...  people say it's not about jealousy, or backlash to hype, or whatever, but what the fuck else could it be?  i would i ever feel like putting a wavves record on my turntable?  no.  but i feel the same about alot of the bands people talk about on Termbo.  but i'm not gonna worry about it.  to each his own.  you want to talk about bands that don't deserve the hype, look at the "best of 2008" lists of Spin, Rolling Stone, or any other music magazine, even smaller, more "independent" magazines.  Those bands really suck.  TV on the Radio?  Really?!?  Fucking terrible to me.  I'd listen to Waaves way before that crap.  I'm glad for anyone who makes halfway decent music that gets any attention.  shit, in a perfect world the Black Lips and King Khan and BBQ and Jay Reatard wouldn't be the only bands I really like that get serious attention and make good money.  I wish there were more...

and everyone who is in a band should have given up on getting any accolades, or any cash, or any respect, or any recognition, or any anything, a long time ago cause it's not gonna happen, ever, whether you deserve it or not.  even if you are great, it probably ain't happening, so you might as well not expect it.  so make sure you have a real job, and make sure you like making/recording/playing music, cause you will be happier that way.

[Vince Clortho Keymaster of Gozac]

why is the amount of hate in direct proportion to the popularity of the band? 

It's because people like to think that they "own" bands and when said band's popularity or success threatens that they need to be the first ones to disown them. You are talking about people who value being "outsider"...not people who value actual music, god forbid.

[Scrod Prickknee]

What's bogus is the argument that anyone prefers the bands they like to remain poor. Total bullshit. I'd just like them to remain relevant while cashing in, something that for whatever reason seems impossible at this point. I do have theories (the general public wanted to hear boundaries pushed at one point, Stones/Beatles/Beach Boys/what have you, but now want the opposite), but yeah. And by "cashing in" I do realize these folks are still making less than your average middle class wage, but I'm not sure what else to call mainstream attention via press/larger label. I'm happy they're happy (as people), but if their records suck, their records suck - simple as that.

Name the last great major label album...Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments??? No idea. Name the last great major label album that didn't tank commercially....?

[Vince Clortho Keymaster of Gozac]

REAL TALK: The two new Beyonce singles are much better than anything discussed on this board.