American Hardcore tracklist

[SSR]

I'll give you a good soundtrack.

Let them eat jelly beans LP

add to that rodney on the roq v1
mastertape v1
this is boston not LP
and flex your head
and you dont need rhino's retrospective

[erickelric]

There's a wall on a building in the Lower East Side that is completely covered in wheatpasted flyers for this movie. Every time I pass it, I think, "What Would Frank Discussion Do?"

[SSR]

the worst thing about the movie is going to be other people telling me what hardcore is. if there was a way to edit them out and get to the footage i havent seen that would be great. like icki i have absolutely no faith in them telling the story of hardcore in a little under 2 hours, less if you count the footage. it will be as surface level as ken burns' rock & roll docu when it did single genre episodes. plus it will be what hardcore means to vic bondi, jello, henry, ian, etc AND YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT THEY THINK.  much better would be the approach penelope spheares used on Decline... interviewing the fans and people as participants, not as spokesmen for a generation. you would think 80 million years of Daid Crosby & Grace Slick telling us why 60s music was so important would be a lesson not to let the "leaders" define a movement. send me a dvd of it and i'll dub funny stuff over the interviews and you can dig on the footage.

[mike]

even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."

[SSR]

i hate that shit. hate hate hate it and i am an old man. it is one of those "those old fuckers should know better than to act like their elders did to them." yes, hardcore was important but there are things going on today that in retrospect will be just as imporant. stupid fucking old people.

[Old Kyle]

even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."

It's kind of funny.  If you think about it, in reality what he is saying is that he "just doesn't know" what's going on.  Not to sound like a sycophant, but Tim Kerr never ever says shit like that.  In fact, he always tells people who want to talk about the past that they should listen to all the great bands going on right now.

[erickelric]

Tim Kerr fuckin rules.

[Old Kyle]

Indeed he do.  Plays a mean accordion also. 

[SSR]

Well, that is cuz Tim has been involved with projects that werent his own. Really, if you do a label or recording, it doesnt matter how old you get, you are exposed to current stuff. I mean you can still have an ear for the past, but if it is stuck there then you wind up doing some lame ass label like TKO. For all his faults, Jello has a like outlook. Its too bad he has a taste for prog metal, but at least the dude tries.

Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to look at in regards to 80s hardcore, things like it being the first suburban music movement, whether its major effect was cultural, political or economic, how the indie label boom of the 90s and the ethical business model many labels followed had its seeds in hardcore, how it became popular without being mainstream and how it reacted when the mainstream invaded it, etc. However, those things are best examined in text not in a documentary in which the biggest hook is band footage.

[Sukebe GG]

Dont get me wrong, there is a lot to look at in regards to 80s hardcore, things like it being the first suburban music movement...

Wouldn't you consider the mid'60s garage scene a fairly suburban thing? - maybe not movement though due to the lack of communication beyond records. Jeff Bale used to try to bring up comparisons between the two. John Brannon called HC the blues of the suburbs too...

[Scrod Prickknee]

Agreed, but I also agree with the general sentiment regarding both hardcore & old people. I go through phases where I'm not as interested in new stuff, but I know that's an internal thing, and not necessarily a true statement on what's currently going on. Lots of new bands are as exciting as the old stuff. You can't tell me the Black Lips (for example) should be brushed off because they're making music in 2006. They're 50 times the band as some garage unit in the mid-60s that made one good single and popped out a buncha mediocre covers, despite what your garage nazis might say. It's definitely harder to put out a record for the history books now, but I'm happy as hell to play a Tyvek or KK/BBQ record, and even happier that I actually get to see them live (which is the true test of a great band).

This is what old people generally resolve themselves to in all areas of thought and expression, and I'm not having it. Kyle, Scott, Ray, and others here are good examples of people who still "get it." It's especially funny watching 22 year old get jaded. It happens to nearly everyone.

[tony]

even worse, when they start talking about punk today and asshole's like bondi saying "kids today, they just don't know...."

considering the following :
he was a bandwagon jumper for both punk and hc
he had/has a political agenda to push
he's an academic know it all
the last of the aof material
his post aof albums
the touring of europe well after aof was done as aof
his shitty column writing

people like vic bondi should shut the fuck up about anything relevent to hardcore. period.

the problem with these "documentaries" is that they only get the blowhards who want to be heard and make nice soundbites that match the filmmaker's perspective.

blush is a dried out old turd who feels that no trend was far more relevent than anything else post 81. he's incredibly smug thruout the book. i found it to be the print version of "when i was your age i had to dig thru 80 miles of 10 feet deep snow with a spork and crawl thru razor wire to get to school".

notice how much of it is written in a "you just wouldn't understand because i was there. see it says so on pages 3-12, 28-36, etc". of course he wants to have clods who are going to dismiss the post 86 to now waves.

i think that some people he interviewed had great intentions but his "artistic vision" got in the way. i'm apprehensive to say the least about seeing the movie.

that said, i think this was a huge mistake on his behalf if he intended to make it a swan song to his youth and the culture because it will only bring about a new wave of cretins with guitars... woo!

[rr]

haha, i was gonna joke earlier, at least "no trend" aint on the comp.

and scott - i gotta call you out - you talk about MRR a  lot and bitch and cry how it ain't involved.  MRR was an excellent resource - for INTERNATIONAL hardcore.  not american hc.  the (admitedly biased) writer called out tim yo for being into politics, is he wrong?  MRR was an excellent resource, but I dont think it was a major thing.  Of course, MRR had some influence....but did it really influence the american hardcore scene?  In the time period he covered at least.  His book is fine.....i think you all protest too much - I wanna see the movie.

[rr]

and IMO the book is fine.

yeah yeah it has typos, it has shit missing.

goddamn!

i'd like to see one of you write it, or myself.

get over it!  its a book about hardcore - condensed into a few hundreed pages.  so what?

get over it......if youre that pissed, suck me off , alright, i'll fill ya in on the "TRUE" hc story, and your girl will be a bit full a'right?

[rr]

and nah, write me!  i'm not gonna bitch and whine about MRR, yeah i'm sure the first four years of that zine would be a thrilling read (82-86).  Yeah thats just dying to be read.  Who cant wait for the first the first 4 yrs of MRR to be re-printed, i'm sure that'll be fun to read!  I'd like to see it, its probably the most boring horseshit anyone has read, with some scene reports and columns thrown in....