Author Topic: Punk is NOT dead!  (Read 9082 times)

Sukebe GG

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #75 on: October 02, 2020, 09:52:09 PM »
I vaguely remember when this came out:

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Anarchy Evolution is a provocative look at the collision between religion and science, by an author with unique authority: UCLA lecturer in Paleontology, and founding member of Bad Religion, Greg Graffin. Alongside science writer Steve Olson (whose Mapping Human History was a National Book Award finalist) Graffin delivers a powerful discussion sure to strike a chord with readers of Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion or Christopher Hitchens God Is Not Great. Bad Religion die-hards, newer fans won over during the band’s 30th Anniversary Tour, and anyone interested in this increasingly important debate should check out this treatise on science from the god of punk rock.

________________________ _________

“Take one man who rejects authority and religion, and leads a punk band. Take another man who wonders whether vertebrates arose in rivers or in the ocean….Put them together, what do you get? Greg Graffin, and this uniquely fascinating book.” —Jared Diamond, author of Guns, Germs, and Steel

Name-checking Hitchens certainly puts me off but the "God of punk rock"!?! oh bruddah water dune herr...
To tackle questions of God and evolution, you have to examine the evolution of consciousness but this book sounds like more New Atheist navel-gazing...

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Graffin clearly has a lot to say, and any one of these topics could have been a book by itself. But instead, everything is jumbled together and you’re never quite sure where the next page will take you. You might assume, for example, that the chapter titled, “The False Idol of Natural Selection,” would focus primarily on challenging the idea of natural selection as the primary driver of traits in humans. While Graffin does this, he also delves into his experiences in the punk scene in high school that helped shape his life. You get the sense that in his mind, the connection is undoubtedly clear, but translation of that into written word is less so. For example, this chapter includes the story of Graffin being led out of his high school in handcuffs after attending a party at which a fight had broken out with kids from another party down the street. Convinced he’d be beaten up by classmates from the rival party (some of whom were on the football team), Graffin writes that his “perp walk” down the hallways of his school saved him because a rumor formed that he’d killed someone.
https://thehumanist.com/magazine/january-february-2011/magazine_article/anarchy-evolution-faith-science-and-bad-religion-in-a-world-without-god

ETA: I made Bad Religion stickers in HS graphics class ~ Come at me bro!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 09:55:02 PM by Sukebe GG »
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nuggetsvolume1

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #76 on: October 03, 2020, 02:55:53 AM »
Ok ok I’ll bite. What the heck was Greg’s book about?


I thought it was going to be about human evolution, but it was some shit about ants, some shit about 80's LA punk and his final conclusion that the only thing he has "faith" in is that his wife probably loves him. Just some anti-God shit. Very boring: I was reading about human evolution/mating/evo psych at the time (which is fascinating, especially if you have dated a lot as a kid) and was expecting this to be along the same lines. Doesn't really touch on human evolution but more on plants and insects. Very bland.

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #77 on: October 03, 2020, 02:57:17 AM »
ps- best book on this subject is "Why Beautiful People Have More Daughters". Amazing read. Probably my favorite non-fiction book. Also, the "Evolution of Desire" by David Buss. Skip Greg.

SmogVeil

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #78 on: October 03, 2020, 10:17:23 AM »
mass nerder:  (i wish this was a joke, but this is seriously a song written by a 40+ year old man)

Don't got no goatee
Don't got no tattoo
Don't got no nose ring
Don't wanna be like you

See I got these glasses
So I'll never be cool
Always get my ass kicked
When I get to school

Don't worry about an image
Don't got no attitude
I know I won't get laid
If I won't be like you

Don't got no biceps
Don't got no pecs
But I'll read you under the table
With my thick specs

See I got these glasses
So they kick my ass
But I'll kick their asses
When I get to class

I got these glasses
So I can't wear shades
But I'll kick their asses
I'll get good grades

Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna get good grades

I can't get with the times
Can't spout the party line
Don't know what the scene's about
Don't tell me to mellow out

Don't got no goatee
No fucking safety pin
No, I ain't no junkie
Don't got no heroin

Don't got no stylish notion
Don't wanna live by the ocean
Just wanna be myself
All you posers go to hell

Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna kick their asses in class
Gonna get good grades

Asses in class
Asses in class
Asses in class

We must read
We must read
We must read
We must read

Read

Somebody give me a book!

Written By
Milo Aukerman
Fat Wreck Chords 2004

All of the lyrics of the Fat e.p. contain fewer words than this single song.

Jared

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #79 on: October 04, 2020, 02:36:08 AM »
Jeez yeah some people are taking the words too seriously, but I totally get it. Pop punk is full of the nice guy finishes last lyrics, and I guess you could say that’s something the Descendants helped established m, so it’s just more evidence that they’re innovators really.

Yeah, kudos to the Descendents for blazing the trail for many subsequent years of misogynistic incel neck beard cringe! Let’s everyone raise a glass to some real pioneers!  ::)
Quote from: Investigate
like licking old pizza and trying to get a wet genital.

nuggetsvolume1

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #80 on: October 04, 2020, 03:37:26 PM »
Jeez yeah some people are taking the words too seriously, but I totally get it. Pop punk is full of the nice guy finishes last lyrics, and I guess you could say that’s something the Descendants helped established m, so it’s just more evidence that they’re innovators really.

Yeah, kudos to the Descendents for blazing the trail for many subsequent years of misogynistic incel neck beard cringe! Let’s everyone raise a glass to some real pioneers!  ::)


I was so stupid as a kid that I thought "I'm The One" was about a long term girlfriend. I never listened to the lyrics. Yes...it's about being a whiney friendzoned orbiter.

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #81 on: October 04, 2020, 10:18:18 PM »
Jeez yeah some people are taking the words too seriously, but I totally get it. Pop punk is full of the nice guy finishes last lyrics, and I guess you could say that’s something the Descendants helped established m, so it’s just more evidence that they’re innovators really.

Yeah, kudos to the Descendents for blazing the trail for many subsequent years of misogynistic incel neck beard cringe! Let’s everyone raise a glass to some real pioneers!  ::)

At one point there was no such thing as rap music. Then suddenly there was, and it has influenced so many aspects of American and even world culture. I think it’s possible that if rap music suddenly disappeared and everything in our culture it laid its fingers on vanished with it, you’d probably take for granted a lot of what would be gone. Some of it is so ingrained into the fabric of our culture’s DNA that it goes unseen, because it’s so ubiquitous.

Why do I bring up rap music? Well believe it or not there are still people who hate rap and still don’t consider it real music. Can you believe that? In 2020!! Well, it’s true, shocking as it may be. And so it doesn’t matter to these people that this new thing came along and changed absolutely everything, because in their view everything else it spawned was garbage.

And that seems to be exactly your view on the Desendants. Yeah you may hate poppunk, but how many punk songs have there been about being a nerd, not getting the girl, school, stupid crushes (and yes misogyny, not sure why you want to single out their brand of misogyny which I don’t think is as extreme as contemporary incel culture, and if you’re generally bothered by misogyny in punk there are bigger, more obvious targets, but that’s fine because it needs to be said anyway)??? Where did that begin? Yeah maybe Johnathan Richman was the first, first, but in the punk/hardcore context, Desendants were pretty influential in creating all that. And it’s an aesthetic that at this point has gone far beyond punk. Maybe what it spawned in some cases is toxic and vile, but that would be like blaming the transgressiveness of Sex Pistols for the transgressiveness of Trump (and Lydon is actually a Trump fan).

And also I have to ask. What were you like in high school? Were you the jock stuffing kids into their lockers? Were you a bully? Were you getting laid all the time? I was not getting laid a lot in high school. I didn’t get my first real girlfriend until I was 17. Before that I’d only had a few sexual encounters with guys (some who were a bit too old in hindsight). Maybe I was considered a burnout because I was pretty advanced in my drug experimenting, but honestly, most people probably thought I was invisible and didn’t even consider high school me. The fact is I didn’t have a lot of friends and I simply couldn’t go out every weekend. It was miserable in different ways, but still miserable. And yes, sometimes exciting.

My high school, nay, life experience was not like what the Desendants sing about, but I respect them for their point of view. Same way I don’t care about spooky monsters and b-movies but still can appreciate the Misfits (also misogynists, I know). Or how I know nothing about politics but can still get into Crass. They all had their own original and impactful visions of the world, whether or not I like it.

And also in a very general sense, I think the abstract idea of not  getting the girl, or whatever, has some universal appeal even if you can’t relate to the specific story of the song.

vedicardi

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2020, 10:21:23 PM »
you really expect me to read all that shit
^BUT THATS JUST ME, IF YOU DISAGREE THATS OKAY!^

Mister Natural

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2020, 10:23:37 PM »
But I'll read you under the table
With my thick specs

Mister Natural

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2020, 10:24:08 PM »
Gonna kick their asses in class

Sukebe GG

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2020, 12:18:13 AM »
Rap died for me in the early 90's...I honestly loved the Judgement Night soundtrack but for some reason, it marked the end of my interest...I do still remember hearing the debut of Rappers' Delight on AM radio because, of course, it was an infectious anomaly, and even though it was a silly rap, it seemed more raw and direct than any AM top 40...
Incels tho? There's a lot of blame to go around for that if you want point content-influence fingers, but I think they sprouted from deeper roots...

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2020, 12:35:31 AM »
If we're gonna start pointing fingers on music and culture for real world violence and supremacy, why not videogames and movies and all that shit.

I always gravitated towards music that validated my negative worldview starting in my early teens, and in some aspects I still do—even though I like to think I'm a grown up and I don't have to agree with everything the singer of a band I like says for entertainment value while singing a song.

It's easy to think that incel-type teenagers would feel a sort of connection with those stupid pop punk lyrics (which I've always hated), but do we really want to establish a cause-effect relationship here? Couldn't it be that both incels and the stupid lyrics are a product of patriarchal society and—sorry, I need to be a European for a second here—of the rigid success-based societal structure that makes the USA such a clusterfuck of sectarianism and hate? I'm not saying that nerds don't exist in Italy, but from what I've seen in decades of cultural exploration and a few times I've been to your country, I've always been surprised by how stiff and schematic societal roles are over there. That takes things to extremes in ways that are different from my country.

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2020, 07:27:09 AM »
I’ve never been to Europe so I can’t speak to what the people would be like. My guess is that there is probably no one way that they are because Europe is made of so many countries that seem very different from one another. But as an American, I have to say, your assessment of us seems pretty accurate. At least, to me.

“Rapper’s Delight” trying to remember when I first heard it. I think it was certainly before it had a mini resurgence thanks to Adam Sandler’s, “The Wedding Singer” where the cute old lady does a version of it. I remember a radio show on a local college station that specialized in old school rap, and I’m thinking this could be where I first heard it. Even then after rap had already become pretty common place it still sounded very otherworldly. It’s crazy to think too that they weren’t even a “real” rap group. Such an anomaly. I think I had a vinyl 12” copy during my punk vinyl collecting days, now lost to time. The long version is insane.

 I Think EPMD might have had a small hit song when they covered it. But maybe I’m wrong about that.

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #88 on: October 05, 2020, 01:23:16 PM »
If we're gonna start pointing fingers on music and culture for real world violence and supremacy, why not videogames and movies and all that shit.

I always gravitated towards music that validated my negative worldview starting in my early teens, and in some aspects I still do—even though I like to think I'm a grown up and I don't have to agree with everything the singer of a band I like says for entertainment value while singing a song.

It's easy to think that incel-type teenagers would feel a sort of connection with those stupid pop punk lyrics (which I've always hated), but do we really want to establish a cause-effect relationship here? Couldn't it be that both incels and the stupid lyrics are a product of patriarchal society and—sorry, I need to be a European for a second here—of the rigid success-based societal structure that makes the USA such a clusterfuck of sectarianism and hate? I'm not saying that nerds don't exist in Italy, but from what I've seen in decades of cultural exploration and a few times I've been to your country, I've always been surprised by how stiff and schematic societal roles are over there. That takes things to extremes in ways that are different from my country.

for sure, i think of this in regards to persuaders "forced to fuck" for instance.  its not gonna cause anybody to go out and date rape, lol. 

the problem with the "good guy" trope is that it is not indicative of reality.  any smart girl knows, the nice guy is only nice until he gets what he wants.  then he is the proud guy, and the egotistical guy, and the jealous guy.  the nice guy only exists 9 times out of 10 as the means to an end, and they're often less attractive to boot. 

to me, its not like OMG these lyrics are so OFFENSIVE!!! hahaha.  fuck it, i still listen to GG allin, he has some good songs!  anyways, descendents in particular, and maybe its because i was sexually active at an early age, but that shit always rang hollow to me, i can't recall feeling anything BUT cringe listening to "sour grapes" for instance, as a teenager.  maybe that shit speaks to kids who can't get laid, but to me, it was pathetic. 

there is nothing cool about being a big glasses wearing nerd who can't get laid to save his life.  i like descendents for the drums, and bass, and the tone of milo's voice.  the lyrical content ALMOST ruins it, but not quite. 
Janis Starcunt

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Re: Punk is NOT dead!
« Reply #89 on: October 05, 2020, 01:23:33 PM »
ps: asses in class. 
Janis Starcunt