San Francisco

[Ayapapaya]

Yeah, I commute on BART everyday from SF to East Bay and the ride is 30 minutes, and I think that's the max you can endure.

The Peninsula is really expensive. Not worth paying so much rent and be so far away from the city.

[dS]

You ever see the movie office space? 40 minutes in stop and go traffic feels a hell of a lot worse than a 5 hour drive.

I know you got midwest experience, so I believe you.

[Dulcinea]

Wild. did you see this? http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jRe7-1GipomU41w-Gp2uGsR3P__AD8V3ESLO0

[turkeybuzzard]

lane.
didn't you say its been raining, snowing, or freezing for the last 6 months in ohio? the bay area is going to be a fucking PARADISE no matter where you are living.

you should consider moving here though:

http://www.winchestermysteryhouse.com/story.html

[dS]

Wild!

[Hugh Jass]

I also have Midwest (Iowa) experience and yes, the traffic to and from Fremont can be nutso. And they get traffic going both directions during both the evening and the morning commutes, since there's people going up to SF and down to San Jose/Silicon Valley to work.

Another place to check out to live would be San Leandro. There are plenty of safe areas left there and it'd be closer to SF and Oakland. There's some interesting older neigborhoods there with some character. And a really cool old diner/greasy spoon called The Fifth Wheel. You might be able to get a place in SL with a yard and it would be waaaay cheaper than Fremont, which is getting very expensive, due to its proximity to San Jose. I don't know how it's possible, but according to an article I read last week, SJ now has a median home cost even higher than SF.

And despite what Aya says, do not completely discount East Oakland. It's probably the cheapest part of Oakland for rentals now. And parts of it really aren't that scary. In East Oakland, some GENERAL guidelines are: Above 580 is better than below. Or at least, above Mac Arthur. If you're near International Blvd/E.14th St below (west) is better than above. Avoid anything near Bancroft. Check out the Eastlake and San Antonio areas, which are near Int'l Blvd from about 1st Ave to around 25th Ave. Not too bad. There are some pretty okay neighborhoods in the Laurel District, which is centered around Mac Arthur @ 35th Ave. The Dimond District, near where I live, isn't too bad, either (Mac Arthur @ Fruitvale Ave.) And there are some okay places near Mills College and off upper Seminary and High Street. Plus, there are some "hidden" neighborhoods in deep East Oakland with addressess that make them seem like they should be totally dangerous, but somehow they're really nice. And there are a lot of places down there with yards. You just have to look. Drive through the neighborhood. If there are a lot of people hanging out on the corners doing nothing at all hours, a lot of bars on the window, a lot of gang graffiti, and more liquor stores than trees, it's probably not too safe. If you see a lot of families and well-kept houses, the crime probably isn't too bad.

[icki]

The stuff I was finding on Craigslist last night seemed to be higher in Fremont and a little lower in Oakland and El Cerrito (which SS told me to check out).  Are there parts of Oakland I should steer clear of?  Or maybe I should ask:  What parts of Oakland should I steer clear of?

If you live in Oakland and have to commute to Fremont (which I'd recommend), it'd make your life significantly easier to live near the Fremont line, rather than having to transfer. Life Fruitvale area, or Lake Merrit.

It's not a huge deal, but after a few years, there will be days when you'll wish you didn't have to fucking wait for a train to transfer. Just thinking ahead.

Andy and everyone else here has everything covered as well/better than I'd be able to help. But if you need some one-on-one help, don't hesitate to get in touch.

Oh, and I double what Missy says about the stop/go traffic. Live relatively near BART. it's not the greatest public transportation, but it can be way better than sitting in traffic forever.

[Ayapapaya]

And despite what Aya says, do not completely discount East Oakland.

haha
yeah, your street is totally nice. It doesn't have the "feel" of the sketchy parts of East Oakland.

And as Icki says, living near BART really is a big plus. I live about a 10 minute walk from the BART station, so I don't have to deal with MUNI (SF bus...real pain in the neck).

[julia n]

Is Hayward really that bad?
The university there keeps sending me stuff to apply, but when I visited it looked kinda sketchy. I just found out that I can pay almost in-state tuition because I live in a "west coast" state, so now I'm reconsidering...

[Hugh Jass]

Is Hayward really that bad?
The university there keeps sending me stuff to apply, but when I visited it looked kinda sketchy. I just found out that I can pay almost in-state tuition because I live in a "west coast" state, so now I'm reconsidering...

Like I said above, for the most part, Hayward is totally safe. I wouldn't worry about that. If you were planning to live down there, the area near Val's Burgers and downtown is nice. It's an old suburb, so it's got some character. Plus, that Val's area is really close to the Castro Valley BART station. And if you have a car, it's really close to 580. I'm not sure how close that is to Cal State East Bay, though.

[denkinger]

Every town with a dead/dull/soul crushing aspect will start livening up once gas hits $6 or $7 a gallon and no one can afford to drive everywhere anymore, and are forced to start interacting with their neighbors.

Of course, as soon as people realize who the fuck they are actually living next door to you will see mass migrations as various tribes look to congregate closer to each other.

[Insensitivemonster]

Is Hayward really that bad?
The university there keeps sending me stuff to apply, but when I visited it looked kinda sketchy. I just found out that I can pay almost in-state tuition because I live in a "west coast" state, so now I'm reconsidering...

You can go to school there, but if you like going to shows and otherwise hanging out (and don't own a car), your life will be very difficult.

[Insensitivemonster]

All this stuff kind of happened today so I haven't looked into much yet.  I'm just trying to get an idea of the place and its liveability.  I'll check Craigslist.  That would be our first experience with tokens.

Yeah, Craigslist is probably your best bet. Fremont is significantly cheaper than SF and Oakland and you can get a place that accepts dogs. You can find it in Oakland too, but the rental prices in Oakland have gone up 10-15% from a year ago. SF is a VERY hard place to have a dog unless you own the property. Bart from Fremont to Oakland wouldn't be so bad, because unlike the stations in SF, almost all the East Bay stations have parking. You can just park your car at the station and hop on the train so you can avoid the nasty freeway traffic.

Most of those lots fill up extremely early (and add another 1.00 to the cost of your commute).  MacArthur fills by 7:30. Ashby is done by 8:15.

West Oakland charges 5.00 (and although it's free on the weekends, it's often packed).

I agree with Mark in the "try and live on the line you'll commute on"
transfer points are annoying. .. and definitely try to be within walking distance of BART if you can.

[Insensitivemonster]

Is Hayward really that bad?
The university there keeps sending me stuff to apply, but when I visited it looked kinda sketchy. I just found out that I can pay almost in-state tuition because I live in a "west coast" state, so now I'm reconsidering...

Like I said above, for the most part, Hayward is totally safe. I wouldn't worry about that. If you were planning to live down there, the area near Val's Burgers and downtown is nice. It's an old suburb, so it's got some character. Plus, that Val's area is really close to the Castro Valley BART station. And if you have a car, it's really close to 580. I'm not sure how close that is to Cal State East Bay, though.

You could live in Castro Valley.. home of Russel Quan!

[Hugh Jass]

West Oakland, for example, is a really interesting area and a prime bart location, and a good example of this. You start to enter on, say, Adeline and 30th or so, and it seems very unfriendly towards whitey, but then the deeper in you go suddenly it's really nice houses and yuppies washing their cars in the summer sun and weird punk kids playing their drums in the middle of the street, drive a little bit more and bam you're right back in the shit again. I'd recommend looking into any places you see that are on the Fremont line and deciding for yourself on a place by place basis.

All true. This is why I find West and North Oakland to be intimidating. It's all mixed up. All the hipster kids and yuppies can lull you into a false sense of security. There's none of that going on in East Oakland. Even the safer neighborhoods there are all working class families who know to be vigilant, because they're aware they live adjacent to gangland and drug war combat zones. In West/North Oakland, people are more prone to take their eye off the ball because of all the faux-hawks and punk houses in their midst. They forget that they're right by the 'hood, too. I imagine this false sense of security is partially to blame for the recent spike in crime in Temescal.